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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#531

Post by gumby271 »

giamma wrote: post #502
Yokolos wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you can have mixed feelings about this. > However, when it comes to publishing apps to the store, This isn't about publishing apps to the Play Store. If that's all this was about, we wouldn't give a shit. The problem is that this applies to all stores, including third party stores like F-Droid, and any app that is installed independently of a store (as an apk file). > Given the growing threat o…

My elderly father unknowingly installed an application on Android after seeing a deceptive ad. An advertising message disguised as an operating system pop-up convinced him that his Android phone's storage was almost full. When he tapped the pop-up, and followed instructions he installed a fake cleaner app from the Play Store. While the app caused no actual harm, it displayed notifications every other day urging him t…

So you're saying Google is doing fuck all to protect customers on their already locked down store, right? This doesn't sound like it will be addressed by Google extending developer registration outside of their store at all if they can't even address obvious scam apps that they're already promoting. And to your point, yes, Apple probably does do a better job of maintaining their app store, that way they can prevent some of the push back on iOS being so locked down. An iPhone sounds like the right device for your father.

Re: Keep Android Open

#532

Post by zouhair »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #323
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

This and also phone manufacturers lock us with Google.

Re: Keep Android Open

#533

Post by GaryBluto »

pyeri wrote: post #143
jeena wrote: post #58

Back in the 2007 or when it came out in Sweden I bought the iPhone and started developing for it. This was cool, new and exciting and it was fine as long as my company was paying the $100 fee every year. But then I switched jobs and worked at a company which produced mostly open source code. Suddenly I would have to pay $100 every year just to be able to put my own software on the phone ... This is why I switched to…

This situation would have been avoided if we, as community of engineers, had insisted on full and uncompromised open source (Stallmanist or GPL way) right from the start instead of going the ESR way of half-hearted open source where it's technically open but corporates get to have a free lunch and make abuses. Like most coders, I also prefer the permissive MIT/Apache/BSD licensing for most software projects but incid…

> half-hearted open source where it's technically open but corporates get to have a free lunch and make abuses.

I'd argue what you describe as "half-hearted" is actually more true to open source and libre software than restrictive licensing.

Re: Keep Android Open

#534

Post by qwertox »

luisml77 wrote: post #500
qwertox wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes, the library named Linux.

Linux, even though you may think is a massive project and you may be right in some regards, doesn't require massive amounts of capital, human resources and paid developers, etc. to build it. Android on the other hand is developed by thousands of engineers and is a much larger project in terms of monetary investment than Linux. Linux was essentially built by a single guy. Android could never have been built by a singl…

My apologies for not being precise: Linux/GNU and all the BSD variants.

Re: Keep Android Open

#535

Post by zouhair »

state_less wrote: post #356
TeMPOraL wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

Back in '99 Linux didn't run Excel/Word/Powerpoint or most games, but I ran it anyway. What others call showstoppers are for me inconveniences. I have a motorolla edge 2024 that I'll load whatever open source phone OS will work well enough to place calls and browse the web. I'll keep another phone for the rare times some corporate/government overlord requires it. Many folks who refuse to use smartphones, similarly ow…

You can't buy a new less than $400 that can be google free.

Re: Keep Android Open

#536

Post by Flere-Imsaho »

keepamovin wrote: post #494
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

You're right. Especially with the rise of agentic AI. You could have hundreds of contributors, all using agents, working on different modules, according to existing spec and tests, create a new OS, or Web Browser or anything. It's the end of monopolistic control of software. But, I think the giants already know and accept this. The moat now is compute. A centralization of power back to the server, the rise of thin cl…

> You could have hundreds of contributors, all using agents, working on different modules, according to existing spec and tests

The current problem with "Linux on phones" is the locked down nature of the hardware. For example, looking at PostmarketOS's support device list [0], sensors, Wifi, even phone calls don't work. Would what you're saying enable faster implementation of those support modules? (This would be really cool if possible).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostmarketOS#Supported_device_...

Re: Keep Android Open

#537

Post by layer8 »

Flere-Imsaho wrote: post #513
BeetleB wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Most of us do not want to carry two phones around. The reality is that there is strong utility for those non-open apps and they will never be replaced by open ones. In some parts of the world, WhatsApp is as necessary as the phone itself. Official business is conducted via it.

I've not managed to read all the comments in this post, so apologies if I'm repeating other people, I also have only a passing understanding of how Google Play works, but couldn't we have: Linux based phone, running Anbox to support Android apps running within containers. Effort would then have to put into support Play APIs within Anbox. Not a small amount of work, but I compare it to the state of Linux 20 years ago…

Google would eventually manage to completely block that. For example, have the app be encrypted for download from the Play Store for the individual Google-approved device key, and the device’s firmware will decrypt and run the app in a way so that the user can’t get hold of the decrypted app blob, and hence can’t possibly run it in any other (non-Google-approved) environment.

The bottom line is, the only way to ensure user freedom here is by regulation/legislation.

Re: Keep Android Open

#538

Post by zouhair »

smaudet wrote: post #372
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

> Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. Because the market has failed, and we have a duopoly. There are many reasons for that, but, this is the exact sort of time a govt must step in - when something becomes a utility, it needs to be regulated as such. I agree, I don't really want to enshrine Google/Apple into law, however if they are makers of an operating system that is used like a common ut…

Samsung can cut ties with Google if they want to, they have market share to go on their own.

Re: Keep Android Open

#539

Post by viktorcode »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #515
viktorcode wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. Those work perfectly via a browser, on any platform where the browser can run. As long as a hypothetical open OS has a browser capable with bog standard moder…

Remind me again what video quality Netflix gives you when streaming to an open browser on an open OS?

You mean Firefox that refuses to support web standards for encoded video streams for ideological reasons?

Re: Keep Android Open

#540

Post by beanjuiceII »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #323
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

relative of mine has t1d and they use their phone app to monitor and give insulin, also alarm them when they are low..trusting outside the reliability of apple and google for this type of stuff i imagine would be difficult.
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