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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#161

Post by DrSiemer »

A year ago I built a React Native Android app for my wife called "Pimp daddy", which she uses to track her earnings as an independent contractor.

The whole concept is meant to poke fun at the idea of me "checking up on her" (I file her tax returns) and the entire theme is 80s pimp styled.

Every time she submits something, she'll get a random pimp remark, like "Go get that money for me, girl!". She just rolls her eyes and ignores it, but it's what made it fun for me to work on it.

Edgy stuff like that could jeopardize my account in the near future. It might just be security now, but an automated "naughty words detector" will be an obvious next step.

I doubt I will invest any more time in hobby app development if I have to deal with some humorless overbearing watchdog telling me what I can and cannot install on my own device. Very sad to see Android following Microsofts anti power user direction.

Re: Keep Android Open

#162

Post by codedokode »

constantcrying wrote: post #82
codedokode wrote: post #29

Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models. The solution, I think, would be a regulation that forbids manufacturers of any chip or device CPU from making obstacles to reprogramming the device (using fuses, digital signatures, encryption etc). So if you buy a device with CPU and writabl…

>The solution, I think, would be a regulation that forbids manufacturers of any chip or device CPU from making obstacles to reprogramming the device (using fuses, digital signatures, encryption etc). Why would you make essential security features illegal? Do you want to fly on a plane where the flight control software was maybe overwritten? >So if you buy a device with CPU and writable memory, you should be able to l…

> Do you want to fly on a plane where the flight control software was maybe overwritten?

I don't understand it. Whoever owns the place can replace any part of it, including computers. So being able to overwrite software doesn't change it. Furthermore, plane computers are not a consumer hardware.

You could make a better example with patched car software.

> The problem is Google and Apple locking down their Operating System, this is not a technical limitation on hardware.

The initial ROM bootloader contains hard-coded signature which prevents you from replacing Apple/Google software.

Re: Keep Android Open

#163

Post by fainpul »

thecupisblue wrote: post #123
jeena wrote: post #58

Back in the 2007 or when it came out in Sweden I bought the iPhone and started developing for it. This was cool, new and exciting and it was fine as long as my company was paying the $100 fee every year. But then I switched jobs and worked at a company which produced mostly open source code. Suddenly I would have to pay $100 every year just to be able to put my own software on the phone ... This is why I switched to…

Ironically, somewhere around 2014, Google was doing the exact same style "keep Android open" campaign, recruiting developers around the world - including me, to help lobby for keeping Android "open" and tell the horror stories of issues that random OEMs caused by forking Android, breaking compatibility and security. Made sense to me at the time and they were really into "Android should be open source" vibe, so I supp…

Apple pisses off many HN users who then swear to switch to Android, Google pisses off many HN users who then swear to switch to an iPhone – so for both companies, in effect, nothing changes.

Aside from that, the masses don't care or know about any of this. A couple of HN users don't make a dent in the revenue of any large company. What we can do is work on alternative ecosystems or at least support the small companies and organizations who do with our wallets.

Re: Keep Android Open

#164

Post by Yokolos »

giamma wrote: post #145

While I understand the reasons behind this campaign, I have mixed feelings about it. As an iPhone user, I find it frustrating that deploying my own app on my own device requires either reinstalling it every 7 days or paying $100 annually. Android doesn't have this limitation, which makes it simpler and more convenient for personal use. However, when it comes to publishing apps to the store, I take a different view. I…

I don't understand how you can have mixed feelings about this.

> However, when it comes to publishing apps to the store,

This isn't about publishing apps to the Play Store. If that's all this was about, we wouldn't give a shit. The problem is that this applies to all stores, including third party stores like F-Droid, and any app that is installed independently of a store (as an apk file).

> Given the growing threat of such attacks, we need to find ways to mitigate them.

How about the growing threat of right-wing authoritarian control? How do we mitigate that when the only "free" platform is deciding the only way anybody can install any app on their phone is if that app's developer is officially and explicitly allowed by Google?

Hell, how long until those anti-porn groups turn their gaze from video games and Steam onto apps, then pressure MasterCard/Visa and in turn Google to revoke privileges from developers who make any app/game that's too "obscene" (according to completely arbitrary standards)?

There's such a massive tail of consequences that will follow and people are just "well, it's fine if it's about security". No. It's not. This is about arbitrary groups with whatever arbitrary bullshit ideology they might have being able to determine what apps are allowed to be made and installed on your phone. It's not fucking okay.

Re: Keep Android Open

#165

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

3abiton wrote: post #115
neilv wrote: post #7

No matter how this turns out, I'm sure GrapheneOS will make a smart effort. https://grapheneos.org/ But long-term, Android is such a massive code base, and was designed more for surveillance and consumption, than for privacy&security and the user's interests. I think getting mainline Linux on viable and sustainable on multiple hardware devices is warmer, fuzzier foundation. (Sort of a cross between Purism's work on t…

The hope is lost for Android, there is no moving forward with google antagonizing its foss roots. Libre phone it is. We have to forcibly remove the bandage.

I wish you were wrong, but I don't disagree with assessment. I am on grapheneos ( edit: on pixel ) now, but even that should only be a pitstop now since google has decided to show its hand in such a nasty ( if not that unexpected ) manner.

Re: Keep Android Open

#166

Post by baobun »

yu3zhou4 wrote: post #152

Are there any alternative mobile OSes actively developed? I remember Ubuntu Touch was the thing and something from Firefox, but not sure if they are continued?

Ubuntu Touch is still a thing.

We also have PostmarketOS (alpine base) and Mobian (debian base) as frontrunners. Supposedly Arch Linux for ARM and openSUSE Tumbleweed are also used by some on mobile.

Re: Keep Android Open

#167

Post by hilbert42 »

The idea of offering something for free then later deliberately restricting and or reducing its scope after securing enough takers to maximize benefits and advantages for those making the offer ought to be unlawful as they are knowingly and deliberately manipulating human nature. Those who accept such seemingly appealing offers often end up disadvantaged or harmed. And here with Google's latest Android edict we have yet another instance.

Manipulation and deception tactics are particularly relevant in internet age and they are Big Tech's standard modus operandi because its found them to be such financially successful business models. Laws need to enacted to prevent such exploitation as it is unreasonable and unacceptable for the psyche/reasoning of ordinary citizens to be pitched against such psychological might.

As so often happens with such authoritarian and manipulative dictates, this Google edict comes wrapped in the usual paltry excuse of security. Even Blind Freddy knows this excuse to be bullshit and that the real beneficiary is Google. The time has come for Android to be decoupled completely from Google.

It's tragic that despite a monopolistic finding against Google the Law didn't recognize the fact.

Re: Keep Android Open

#168

Post by 63stack »

rafaelmn wrote: post #154
willtemperley wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but app is only usable for 7 days on iOS.

Yes that is annoying - I hate Apple anti side loading stance. But that still doesn't make 100$ fee to apply for distribution/integration with their ecosystem unreasonable.

Your options are either $100/year for "integration with their ecosystem", or your app stops working every 7 days.

It is very unreasonable.

Re: Keep Android Open

#169

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

layfellow wrote: post #13

This is doubleplusungood. The war on General Purpose Computing is the death of innovation and a direct attack on digital freedom. If you're in the US, UK or EU, please contact your government.

If, and I do mean if, government is a solution here, its only role is to ensure that app use cannot be required for service ( and we can argue over what services can stay app-only ).

Re: Keep Android Open

#170

Post by charcircuit »

bpye wrote: post #62
charcircuit wrote: post #49

If you care about it, then buy Android phones that will support sideloading. Financially reward companies that are doing what you want.

Which Android phones? If I understand correctly this will be a requirement for certification, so any devices that do not enforce it will not pass integrity checks. Goodbye banking apps, etc.

Chinese phones, ones with GrapheneOS, new ones created to fulfill the market demand Google is creating.

>will not pass integrity checks

Those apps can add support for other integrity APIs. Operating system owners can fund this work to help their operating system gain marketshare.

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