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A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

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Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#501

Post by selcuka »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #487
akhmatova wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attempt to exculpate the robot's actions (more more directly: the actions of its human programmers) is just ... bizarre. Yeah, the robot didn't specifically "grab" the boy's finger. It grabbed a piece while the boy's finger was still on it . Without having any idea what it was doing. Same thing, in other words -- in terms of the end result. And more to the point, it was an action that a human player would most l…

The robot didn't do anything. Some humans rented a machine and inexpertly operated it, no different than if I rented a back hoe and dug up a power line. There is nothing to contest when people observe this fact.

No one is blaming the robot, but that doesn't change the fact that it's clearly not fit for purpose unlike a back hoe. A robot is expected to be smarter than a back hoe as it works autonomously, especially when it is designed to be operated near a child.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#502

Post by gdy »

smsm42 wrote: post #499
gdy wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are quite mistaken. The notion of hate speech is not unique for Western culture. Article 282 in Russian Criminal Codex exists since Eltsin time (1996) and addresses incitement of hatred on racial, religious and ethnic grounds. It itself is based on similar article from Soviet times (1960). In 2003 it was extended by Putin in include hate speech based on gender, language, origin and social stratum. You can read th…

> The notion of hate speech is not unique for Western culture. Of course not. But you are using it as a weapon agains Western culture, trying to trigger it into self-harm. Not because you care about Western values and not promoting hate, but because you see a vulnerability that you could exploit - tell somebody "it's hate speech" and they'd run in panic. Except the trick is now obvious, so it won't work. > Article 28…

>But you are using it as a weapon agains Western culture, trying to trigger it into self-harm.

That's funny, so now calling out double standards is 'trying to trigger Western culture into self-harm'. Because noticing your own hypocrisy hurts so much, poor you.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#503

Post by mads_ravn »

gdy wrote: post #430
mads_ravn wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we fundamentally disagree in how human psychology works: I believe that if authorities (be they government officials, parents or others) habitually lie and cheat, then that behavior becomes socially sanctioned as a way to get ahead. Thus you end up with more “shitty people” (and a worse society)

And by the way, when you hear Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen say 'The United States will impose harsh consequences on countries that break the international economic order' and then ironically blaming Russia instead of her own country [0], do you feel how society becomes a little bit worse? [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/yellen-says-us-will-impose-...

Hmm, I fail to see how this is even remotely comparable to Russian propaganda/related to the topic at hand, but I’ll give you that the “West” has also behaved atrociously in the past. Though please be aware, that arguments like the one you are trying to make, has a distinct feeling of whataboutism.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#504

Post by mads_ravn »

gdy wrote: post #429
mads_ravn wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we fundamentally disagree in how human psychology works: I believe that if authorities (be they government officials, parents or others) habitually lie and cheat, then that behavior becomes socially sanctioned as a way to get ahead. Thus you end up with more “shitty people” (and a worse society)

No argument here, but my point is that if you believe lies and don't notice that you are being cheated, it doesn't corrupt you.

Again, I don’t think we are going to end up agreeing as I believe that a significant portion of the Russian people are aware, that they are being lied to, but are to scared to do anything about this.

Please also note, that I don’t believe this applied to all Russians. The few I’ve interacted with more closely have been nice (the opposite of “shitty”)

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#505

Post by 0x737368 »

romwell wrote: post #500
0x737368 wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring would presume that the war is somewhat relevant to chess. Also Russia has plenty of legitimacy, both before and after the Ukraine invasion, as much as it seemingly pains you to admit that.

Russian Chess has, and always has been, a tool in their international politics. As is any sport on a national level. The war has affected Russia's ability to participate in sports on the international level. The war has relevance to the discussion of sports, including chess, absolutely everywhere - except HackerNews, it seems. >Also Russia has plenty of legitimacy, both before and after the Ukraine invasion No pain i…

No, you can spin politics on top of sport, but sport is sport. It's been an excuse for a long time for the West to discriminate Russian athletes for no other reason than them being born in Russia - in a more civilised place this would be seen nothing other than bigotry.

First they used doping as an excuse, with the West of course turning a blind eye on their own athletes' rampant use of PEDs and now they use the war with which the Russian athletes have nothing to do with. I'm sure Putin is shaking this whole time and is just about to tap out out of the war because a young athlete who has dedicated their whole life to excel at a sport and their potential having a VERY limited shelf life can no longer participate.

Think about what you're saying sometimes, buddy.

> It should have none.

Cry harder :,(

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#506

Post by gdy »

mads_ravn wrote: post #503
gdy wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by the way, when you hear Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen say 'The United States will impose harsh consequences on countries that break the international economic order' and then ironically blaming Russia instead of her own country [0], do you feel how society becomes a little bit worse? [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/yellen-says-us-will-impose-...

Hmm, I fail to see how this is even remotely comparable to Russian propaganda/related to the topic at hand, but I’ll give you that the “West” has also behaved atrociously in the past. Though please be aware, that arguments like the one you are trying to make, has a distinct feeling of whataboutism.

"I fail to see how this is even remotely comparable to Russian propaganda/related to the topic at hand"

Ehh, perfectly/directly?

I gave you a fine example of "denying responsibility and lying" which should have corrupting influence on the recipients. I wonder if you notice this influence.

"whataboutism"

Any mention of this word has a distinct feeling of double standards.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#507

Post by gdy »

mads_ravn wrote: post #504
gdy wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No argument here, but my point is that if you believe lies and don't notice that you are being cheated, it doesn't corrupt you.

Again, I don’t think we are going to end up agreeing as I believe that a significant portion of the Russian people are aware, that they are being lied to, but are to scared to do anything about this. Please also note, that I don’t believe this applied to all Russians. The few I’ve interacted with more closely have been nice (the opposite of “shitty”)

"a significant portion of the Russian people are aware, that they are being lied to, but are to scared to do anything about this"

Well, some of them must be trying to rationalize and normalize what's happening to reduce psychological suffering, but calling them bad on these grounds has a distinct feeling of blaming the victim.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#508

Post by DonHopkins »

gdy wrote: post #456
DonHopkins wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

"And you should know better." Do I? Please quote the wikipedia article you linked to. "You also dodged all the other questions about what YOU believe, again. Why are you so coy and shy about that? Do you have something to hide?" I don't feel like answering them. "Do you prefer that gay Russian children commit suicide" Quoting from your own link: "Because reliable data does not exist, we do not know whether LGBT youth…

No post body was provided.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#509

Post by aj7 »

wakeupcall wrote: post #327
aj7 wrote: post #97

Looks like a robot that could load a 20kg bar of metal into a lathe.

And probably is. Looks like an off-the-shelf industrial arm from the video. The common recommendation around these powerful automated machines is to stay clear over the entire range of motion. These are difficult to secure even if they have force-sensing features, for the simple fact that it's incredibly difficult to foresee all possible ways you might need these sensors, and the sensing capability might be skewed to…

Exactly my impression. That damn thing had no business anywhere near a chessboard with a person who could put his hands “inside the cage.” But this is Russia, where it’s natural to blame the kid.
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