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Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

reuters.com

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Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So technology is irrelevant when it comes to the entire architecture of how public/private key encryption works?

No. How the technology works is irrelevant when the end result is that the government wants the data. If your boss asks you to build a machine that produces a widget, does he really care what your code looks like? Probably not. In the same vein, Apple can figure out whatever solution they want, whether it involves conventional use of encryption keys or not, to provide a system where the Chinese government can get acc…

Do you have any proof? Any citations from security experts?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question and his answer were both completely clear. And most importantly, it's perfectly consistent with what Apple has said multiple times. You can believe they lied to a federal court and Congress if you want, but I certainly don't.

There is no lying here. Only poorly worded questions that are conveniently misguided to the benefit of Apple.

I looked at your other comments so I know you're one of the bad faith FUD peddlers.

But for anyone else that didn't click through to the thread I linked, you can hear it from the horse's mouth right here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD1cP8SK3Q0&feature=youtu.be...

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The private keys don’t in fact “exist on machines managed by a third party”. That’s kind of the entire concept of public/private key encryption.

Nothing about assymetric crypto mandates that a 3rd party cant manage the key. In this case, CCP has the key.

Do you have any proof that Apple rearchitected their system to send private keys that were only stored on their device back to Apple?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#504
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say makes sense. Still, if that’s the case, then when they decided not to go down the user-is-in-full-and-absolute-control path for encryption of iCloud backups, they should have publicized it loudly and with extreme clarity on what exactly was happening and where the lines were. So that users could make informed choices.

They have never hidden how iCloud backups or anything else related to iOS security works. This support document spells out clearly what data is end-to-end encrypted [1]. No one was actually misled into thinking all iCloud data was E2E. For one, most of Apple's customers don't know or care about the technical architecture of their products and services. The people who do would have known better when you can go to iclo…

The page you've linked to has a table filled entirely with the word Yes, apart from iCloud.com which has a note and Mail which has a note.

The first entry in the table is:

Backup Yes Yes

At a glance this looks, to me, as though iCloud backups are encrypted.

What am I missing?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would urge you to read up on the Chinese cryptography law [1] which took effect on the 1st of this year. Essentially all companies foreign or not must provide unencrypted access to data to the Chinese government and must do so in secrecy. Prior to this, companies were being compelled to give up their data anyways but this just makes things easier. By the way, the source below is an official Chinese government media…

I've just read the article you linked[1], as well as several others [2][3][4] and cannot find any information about this: >all companies foreign or not must provide unencrypted access to data to the Chinese government and must do so in secrecy either plainly stated or implied. Can you provide a source for this claim? I don't doubt that this may occur, but I'd like to speak with _my own_ managers about my china & encr…

This is the most in-depth article I've seen on the topic: https://www.chinalawblog.com/2019/11/chinas-new-cryptography....

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#506
post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking about long-term profits instead of short ones, and sacrificing profits for some greater moral purpose, are not at all the same thing. It's entirely possible to do immoral things for the sake of profit while still being prudent about your company's future. As for sacrificing profits to a moral end: private companies may do this occasionally. Not often, but sometimes. But the CEO of a publicly-traded company e…

>> But the CEO of a publicly-traded company expressly does not have the option of sacrificing profits for any higher purpose, unless that directive comes from his shareholders. This is not true AFAICT. In practice it might be.

If the CEO goes against the shareholders' wishes, he or she will simply be fired. The CEO works for shareholders and has no independent authority.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#507
post #194

Beyond HN and tech circles, is there any detectable groundswell of demand for privacy? When you talk with friends & family about privacy, does anyone care? When average people care about privacy, the large players will respond. Until then, pressure from the state can be accommodated without irking customers, so Big Tech will play along.

Next time you encounter someone who claims they don't care about privacy, ask whether or not they close the bathroom door (or the stall in a public restroom) when they're taking a shit. And if they say yes, ask them why? What's going on in there isn't any big secret. It's not like they're in there plotting a terrorist attack. What are they hiding behind that door? It turns out most people _do_ care about privacy. You…

> "ask whether or not they close the bathroom door (or the stall in a public restroom) when they're taking a shit"

This is a pretty bad question and a hyperbole. Most people would want no one (including people who they are usually intimate with) to watch them defecate. And that is not the same thing as government snooping on its own citizens. Arguments for massive surveillance given by governments is not so much about invading the personal privacy of people than it is about protecting national "security" or preventing "terrorism". For this reason, few people are going to get convinced if you equate the privacy to use the lavatory without anyone watching to the privacy of being able to communicate without the government monitoring you. The best argument against massive surveillance is the one that Snowden gave during a Reddit AMA:

> "Some might say "I don't care if they violate my privacy; I've got nothing to hide." Help them understand that they are misunderstanding the fundamental nature of human rights. Nobody needs to justify why they "need" a right: the burden of justification falls on the one seeking to infringe upon the right. But even if they did, you can't give away the rights of others because they're not useful to you. More simply, the majority cannot vote away the natural rights of the minority.

> "But even if they could, help them think for a moment about what they're saying. Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.

> "A free press benefits more than just those who read the paper."

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no lying here. Only poorly worded questions that are conveniently misguided to the benefit of Apple.

I looked at your other comments so I know you're one of the bad faith FUD peddlers. But for anyone else that didn't click through to the thread I linked, you can hear it from the horse's mouth right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD1cP8SK3Q0&feature=youtu.be...

Didn't take long to escalate into an Ad Hominem attack did it?

By the way, I don't think a Vice video with a puff-PR interview with Tim Cook about data privacy is going to help your case. It's about as effective as going into prison and asking an inmate if he's innocent.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a HUGE problem. Well, you can choose not to use iCloud for that reason (as some of us do). A bigger problem is that Apple deliberately locks up iDevices so it's hard to get your data off them using only local means, particularly if you don't also want to buy an Apple laptop just to do it.

If only iTunes existed for Windows....

If only iTunes worked reliably on Windows and didn't have a long track record of bugs, subtle usability issues causing catastrophic data loss, connection problems where it doesn't detect the device properly...

Let me know when iPhones and iPads support standard plug and play protocols that work universally without relying on either Apple's proprietary and frequently broken software or someone else's commercial alternative that attempts to do what Apple should have been doing all along.

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