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Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

reuters.com

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Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#431
post #206

> aboyt how much Apple cares about users No company cares about anything. A company is not a person. Apple, because of its privacy-marketing, is incentivized to be the privacy player in the market. But only so far as consumers keep them honest about it. They got away with this loophole because it stayed under the radar; if it gets enough attention and enough customers show that it matters to them, it could change. On…

> No company cares about anything It's a common misconception that corporations are amoral incentive-driven machines impervious to ethics, morals or mission. Corporations are run by leaders. Many leaders choose to pursue unethical and immoral activities to maximize profit. They justify their actions by saying "it's just business", or "we have a fiduciary duty to the stockholders to maximize earnings per share by what…

Thinking about long-term profits instead of short ones, and sacrificing profits for some greater moral purpose, are not at all the same thing.

It's entirely possible to do immoral things for the sake of profit while still being prudent about your company's future.

As for sacrificing profits to a moral end: private companies may do this occasionally. Not often, but sometimes. But the CEO of a publicly-traded company expressly does not have the option of sacrificing profits for any higher purpose, unless that directive comes from his shareholders. And in today's world, the shareholders of most major companies are of such a large number and have so many layers of detachment between themselves and the actual company (I don't even know what companies Betterment has me invested in; they can change every day) that the only common goal they can agree on is almost always profits.

An interesting exception to the norm is Facebook: despite being publicly-traded, Zuckerberg maintains both a majority holding and the position of CEO, and is therefore free to go on his crusade of "connecting the world", mostly ignoring what the other shareholders might want.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#432
When will a startup enter into this space with a privacy focused smartphone? Does this already exist, and is it good? If not, why all the complaints and why hasn't someone entered the market? Obviously startup costs will be high, but there will certainly be funding available for this market, right?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, aboyt how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. In this instance, Apple decided to continue to not encrypt iCloud backups because, according to one source, > […] the company did not want to risk being attacked by public officials for protecting criminals, sued for moving previously…

It is mere marketing, if it is meant to convince consumers of one thing while in practice it's a different thing. The reasons why are irrelevant. Apple would prefer everyone just assumed iCloud backups were encrypted, and tries to keep quiet about it.

Apple has never marketed the idea that iCloud backups are encrypted.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the linked Rueters article... Apple says the joint venture does not mean that China has any kind of “backdoor” into user data and that Apple alone – not its Chinese partner – will control the encryption keys.

Incorrect. Please see the official Apple Support page [1] that debunks this. It specifically states: "iCloud services and all the data you store with iCloud, including photos, videos, documents, and backups, will be subject to the new terms and conditions of iCloud operated by GCBD." And since all Chinese companies are bound by local laws, you can be assured that your data is readily available for access by the gover…

That still doesn’t make the original statement that “encryption keys are given to China” correct.

The data that is available in China is not encrypted and would also be available to US authorities.

Can you quote the part of the article that states that Apple must give China private keys? Can you find a citation where a third party has found proof that Apple changed the iMessage architecture?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple uses third party data centers, if it can't host encrypted data on a Chinese server without China having access to the data, there is something wrong with the encryption.

I would urge you to read up on the Chinese cryptography law [1] which took effect on the 1st of this year. Essentially all companies foreign or not must provide unencrypted access to data to the Chinese government and must do so in secrecy. Prior to this, companies were being compelled to give up their data anyways but this just makes things easier. By the way, the source below is an official Chinese government media…

Do you have any evidence that Apple rearchitected their system to have access to private keys that it doesn’t have access to anywhere, to have access to give it to China?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mere marketing, if it is meant to convince consumers of one thing while in practice it's a different thing. The reasons why are irrelevant. Apple would prefer everyone just assumed iCloud backups were encrypted, and tries to keep quiet about it.

Apple has never marketed the idea that iCloud backups are encrypted.

You need to be extremely technical to understand the difference between "Encryption: Yes" and not end-to-end encrypted. To the lay user, Apple is explicitly telling you that they're encrypted. See https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#437
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Android at this point a more secure OS? The price for zero days at least is signaling that.

As far as I know the consensus is still that iOS is more secure. Of course there are different definitions of that. Certainly Android is more ripe for abuse by apps downloaded from the store, for example; they can run freely in the background and do things like draw UX over other apps. Also, privacy != security. iOS is absolutely in a better position on privacy, even after this new development.

iOS has been worse for privacy for a very long time. You cannot even develop apps for your own device without telling Apple who you are or download apps without creating an Apple account. You cannot get your location without also sending it to Apple. Android suffers from none of these problems.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things: 1) There is no way Apple would be allowed to sell iPhones in China, without China government having access to anything. So, I assume that Apple users in China have e2e encrypted exactly nothing. 2) I have a strong suspicion that those 'enter your Apple ID password because your account needs it' message really means 'a government has requested your data and even though it's encrypted, we will nag you about…

>1) There is no way Apple would be allowed to sell iPhones in China, without China government having access to anything. So, I assume that Apple users in China have e2e encrypted exactly nothing. E2E works exactly the same in China. You can read more in my comments here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20904857 The same "vulnerability" of being able to respond to legal requests for iCloud data that exists in Chi…

Please stop spreading disinformation. Your sources are outdated and the quotes that you are referencing are not legally binding. The fact is that Apple has clearly stated that iCloud data for Mainland Chinese users is stored on servers operated by a Chinese company, which must abide by the local laws and regulations. It is also a well known fact that all companies operating in China can be compelled by the Chinese government to provide data and do so in secret.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mere marketing, if it is meant to convince consumers of one thing while in practice it's a different thing. The reasons why are irrelevant. Apple would prefer everyone just assumed iCloud backups were encrypted, and tries to keep quiet about it.

Apple has never marketed the idea that iCloud backups are encrypted.

Apple did market to users that it was technically incapable of helping unlock iPhones. After the FBI showed that Apple technically can do so, that marketing disappeared very quickly. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/ios-8-even-apple-cant-...

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#440

Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, about how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. While iPhone itself is pretty secure as a device phone (and Apple makes sure to remind you about that in each ad, public speaking, attacks on competitors, etc), as an ecosystem it's not secure. And it's like that on purpose - there's no…

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