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Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

reuters.com

461–470 of 734 posts

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence that Apple rearchitected their system to have access to private keys that it doesn’t have access to anywhere, to have access to give it to China?

Technology is irrelevant here. Laws (or in China, the Chinese Communist Party) govern these things.

So technology is irrelevant when it comes to the entire architecture of how public/private key encryption works?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple uses third party data centers, if it can't host encrypted data on a Chinese server without China having access to the data, there is something wrong with the encryption.

The keys exist on machines managed by the third party, which is controlled by the state. Therefore, the state has access to the data. Edit: Apple itself has stated that the keys are in China. The option of having Apple devices talk through the Great Firewall to servers in the US that then encrypt the data for storage in China (and on the querying end, request encrypted data from China to decrypt and process in the US…

The private keys don’t in fact “exist on machines managed by a third party”. That’s kind of the entire concept of public/private key encryption.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#464
post #206

> aboyt how much Apple cares about users No company cares about anything. A company is not a person. Apple, because of its privacy-marketing, is incentivized to be the privacy player in the market. But only so far as consumers keep them honest about it. They got away with this loophole because it stayed under the radar; if it gets enough attention and enough customers show that it matters to them, it could change. On…

Agreed. Once a company goes public, it is obliged to maximize its profits. The investors can literally sue you if you don't. So, anything considered legal is on the table.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a backup of your iCloud can be a real backup. What do you think is special about a phone backup compared to a backup of anything else?

So you're saying that people SHOULD care about backups now? Which is it?

No I haven't varied my position at all.

I said don't have the primary store of your content to be on your phone and don't backup your phone.

The reason for this is that if you lose your phone, everything is lost since you last backed up.

Instead, store have the primary store of your content to be in the cloud and backup your cloud.

The reason for this is that if you lose your phone, it's irrelevant, just get a new phone and re-install your cloud apps. Now you don't need to worry about backing up your phone ever.

The only failure mode is if your phone has not had a signal to upload new content to the cloud in the last few minutes. Well guess what you probably also haven't backed up your phone in that time either if that's what you were doing.

See?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#466

I'm so done with Apple, but more generally, with cell-phones. I was very excited to have Signal available back in 2015, but when I learned about cellular baseband processors and DMA attacks, I realized the whole smartphone stack is insecure. We can't audit anything in our phones, down to the cellular chip. Even if our phones were 100% trustworthy, they are triangulated by cell towers thousands of times per day. Locat…

I think you are indeed missing a few pros. Off the top of my head,

1. Having Google/Apple Maps has helped me find new restaurants and kept me from ever getting lost in foreign cities,

2. Tinder and other dating apps have enabled me to date people that I would never have met in my day-to-day life,

3. Lyft and Uber have come in handy more times than I can count,

and the list goes on. My use-case is different than yours, I’m sure, but there is a reason that smartphones are ubiquitous: we as a society have roughly evaluated the cost-benefit analysis of owning one and tend to side with the ‘benefit’.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#467
post #206

> aboyt how much Apple cares about users No company cares about anything. A company is not a person. Apple, because of its privacy-marketing, is incentivized to be the privacy player in the market. But only so far as consumers keep them honest about it. They got away with this loophole because it stayed under the radar; if it gets enough attention and enough customers show that it matters to them, it could change. On…

> No company cares about anything It's a common misconception that corporations are amoral incentive-driven machines impervious to ethics, morals or mission. Corporations are run by leaders. Many leaders choose to pursue unethical and immoral activities to maximize profit. They justify their actions by saying "it's just business", or "we have a fiduciary duty to the stockholders to maximize earnings per share by what…

>Leaders with a moral mission make decisions that sometimes sacrifice short-term profits with the intent to build an organization and a brand for long term.

Shortly before being dragged off the stage by the stockholders. Careers have been ruined over not over-performing enough, let alone leading multi-million dollar enterprises off into the desert.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple uses third party data centers, if it can't host encrypted data on a Chinese server without China having access to the data, there is something wrong with the encryption.

I would urge you to read up on the Chinese cryptography law [1] which took effect on the 1st of this year. Essentially all companies foreign or not must provide unencrypted access to data to the Chinese government and must do so in secrecy. Prior to this, companies were being compelled to give up their data anyways but this just makes things easier. By the way, the source below is an official Chinese government media…

I've just read the article you linked[1], as well as several others [2][3][4] and cannot find any information about this:

>all companies foreign or not must provide unencrypted access to data to the Chinese government and must do so in secrecy

either plainly stated or implied.

Can you provide a source for this claim? I don't doubt that this may occur, but I'd like to speak with _my own_ managers about my china & encryption concerns in an informed way.

[1] http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/26/c_138505655.htm

[2]https://www.insideprivacy.com/data-security/china-enacts-enc...

[3]https://thediplomat.com/2019/10/decoding-chinas-cryptography...

[4]https://www.iflr.com/Article/3907570/PRIMER-Chinas-cryptogra...

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, aboyt how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, Probably not. The keyboards on their laptops are barely functional but it doesn't stop people from saying how great they are.

> The keyboards on their laptops are barely functional This must be some definition of "barely functional" I'm unfamiliar with. I've had a mid-2017 MBP since they were released. Yeah, I had to get the keyboard replaced when some keys failed after a year, but at least they did it for free. Actually, overall I prefer this keyboard to the 2013 I had previously. I think their failure rate is unacceptable, but they are ce…

[deleted]

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#470
post #206

> aboyt how much Apple cares about users No company cares about anything. A company is not a person. Apple, because of its privacy-marketing, is incentivized to be the privacy player in the market. But only so far as consumers keep them honest about it. They got away with this loophole because it stayed under the radar; if it gets enough attention and enough customers show that it matters to them, it could change. On…

> No company cares about anything It's a common misconception that corporations are amoral incentive-driven machines impervious to ethics, morals or mission. Corporations are run by leaders. Many leaders choose to pursue unethical and immoral activities to maximize profit. They justify their actions by saying "it's just business", or "we have a fiduciary duty to the stockholders to maximize earnings per share by what…

Worth noting that there are benefit corporations, or B-Corps, which get around this 'profits and nothing else' ideology. Some examples include Patagonia, Kickstarter, and Allbirds.
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