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France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

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Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#51

Post by cdubzzz »

xdennis wrote: post #28
markstos wrote: post #10

The US meat and dairy industry have asked for similar bans as well. The problem is, consumers aren't actually confused. Different names will used if need be and consumers will continue the trend of reducing their meat consumption for environmental, health, or ethical reasons.

> The problem is, consumers aren't actually confused. Nonsense! I was tricked. They: * make the products look like real sausages and cheese * sell them in the same packages * label them in large letters as the real thing * write "vegan" in small letters * put them next to the real things It's all done to trick people.

I was going to suggest this is an over generalization but interestingly when searching for example images you seem to be right — every image I looked at had things like “vegan” or “soy” in much smaller letters than things like SAUSAGE or CREAM CHEESE.

I eat a mostly plant based diet and primarily recognize the options by brand so I never really noticed this. E.g., I know that Soy Station brand “cheese” is never real cheese despite anything else the label may say. Ditto something like Field Roast’s various “meats”.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#52

Post by [deleted] »

xdennis wrote: post #33
ggm wrote: post #23

This debate won't end in a hurry. We've been arguing about what beer is since the German beer laws and before. British Sausages cause hilarity in Europe. The idea that definitionally we can state a-priori what is or is not the current meaning of a term when language itself is plastic is kind of broken because the distinction between Cows, Cattle, Beef, Veal, Bison, Oxen, Bullock and Bull, Buffalo and Bison and Cow, G…

You're conflating metaphors with obfuscation. For example, coconut milk is named so simply because it's a white liquid. It's not trying to be a replacement for milk, or trying to confuse people, it's just a metaphor. But vegan milk, sausages, etc, are all meant to be as similar to the real things as possible so as to cause confusion.

[deleted]

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#53

Post by k8si »

xdennis wrote: post #26
briandoll wrote: post #22

In the US, the dairy industry tried this and thankfully lost (in California): The Animal Legal Defense Fund represented Miyoko’s Kitchen in its challenge of unconstitutional restrictions placed on plant-based dairy products’ marketing and labeling Miyoko makes vegan cheese and brought the California Department of Food and Agriculture to court to challenge their ban on the term "cheese" to represent her products. She…

That would be completely fair, assuming the reverse is true as well. That is, being able to sell real cheese as "vegan cheese" to trick vegans into eating it. I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. They don't deserve protection either.

I imagine this was probably user error on your part. The vegan cheese is usually on the other end of the grocery store from the real cheese, and also usually says 'vegan' prominently, and also there are only like 2-3 brands that make vegan cheese (Miyoko, Daiya, maybe 1 other?). And vegans still usually have to read the ingredients to make sure. Non-vegans could probably do the same if it were that important.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#54

Post by kjkjadksj »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #40
tus666 wrote: post #14

> as food from dead animals. Who describes meat like that? Is it a german thing? Weird.

How would you describe meat?

Would you describe vegetarian food as “food from dead plants” or the harvested product, like soy/tofu? Meat is the name of the product.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#55

Post by spoonjim »

markstos wrote: post #10

The US meat and dairy industry have asked for similar bans as well. The problem is, consumers aren't actually confused. Different names will used if need be and consumers will continue the trend of reducing their meat consumption for environmental, health, or ethical reasons.

I have twice been tricked and bought "chikn" or similar. One time the product I bought I was incredibly disgusting, the other time it was alright and edible.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#56

Post by justin66 »

arcticbull wrote: post #2

They're not banning veggie 'steaks' and 'sausages', they're saying they need a new name. Title is inaccurate, worth changing @dang.

I almost wrote an insistent comment about how literally no one could be confused by that story title. Then I scrolled past the comment by the guy who was "tricked into buying vegan sausages," and now I just don't know.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#57

Post by octodog »

xdennis wrote: post #33
ggm wrote: post #23

This debate won't end in a hurry. We've been arguing about what beer is since the German beer laws and before. British Sausages cause hilarity in Europe. The idea that definitionally we can state a-priori what is or is not the current meaning of a term when language itself is plastic is kind of broken because the distinction between Cows, Cattle, Beef, Veal, Bison, Oxen, Bullock and Bull, Buffalo and Bison and Cow, G…

You're conflating metaphors with obfuscation. For example, coconut milk is named so simply because it's a white liquid. It's not trying to be a replacement for milk, or trying to confuse people, it's just a metaphor. But vegan milk, sausages, etc, are all meant to be as similar to the real things as possible so as to cause confusion.

What a strange idea. They are called vegan sausages because they simulate the flavour of and can substitute as a meat sausage.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#58

Post by synicalx »

tpmx wrote: post #13

It's getting ridiculous here in Sweden. Actual product names (they tend to use English, sometimes with intentional misspellings to get around regulations, I assume): "Vegan Grated Ch se" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_large_2x_v1,f_auto/731024... ) "Roast Beaf - Plant-based cold cut" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_large_2x_v1,f_auto/735003... ) "Parveggio - grated" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_lar…

Y'all got any of those chiggin nuggets?

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#59

Post by lotsofpulp »

xdennis wrote: post #33
ggm wrote: post #23

This debate won't end in a hurry. We've been arguing about what beer is since the German beer laws and before. British Sausages cause hilarity in Europe. The idea that definitionally we can state a-priori what is or is not the current meaning of a term when language itself is plastic is kind of broken because the distinction between Cows, Cattle, Beef, Veal, Bison, Oxen, Bullock and Bull, Buffalo and Bison and Cow, G…

You're conflating metaphors with obfuscation. For example, coconut milk is named so simply because it's a white liquid. It's not trying to be a replacement for milk, or trying to confuse people, it's just a metaphor. But vegan milk, sausages, etc, are all meant to be as similar to the real things as possible so as to cause confusion.

> But vegan milk, sausages, etc, are all meant to be as similar to the real things as possible so as to cause confusion.

Source? I would assume they are as similar to the real thing as possible in order to be as similar to the real thing as possible. I.e. an alternative for people who do not want to source their food from animals, but do want their food to have characteristics similar to those that are sourced from animals.

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