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France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

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Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#21

Post by pkaye »

shireboy wrote: post #18
tpmx wrote: post #13

It's getting ridiculous here in Sweden. Actual product names (they tend to use English, sometimes with intentional misspellings to get around regulations, I assume): "Vegan Grated Ch se" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_large_2x_v1,f_auto/731024... ) "Roast Beaf - Plant-based cold cut" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_large_2x_v1,f_auto/735003... ) "Parveggio - grated" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_lar…

Was thinking this is going to lead to some cringey product names. "veak" and "vausage" for the uncreative and it goes downhill from there. Our family calls it "feat" for "fake meat"

I'm trademarking 5teak, 5ausage, Chee5e and Mi7k.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#22

Post by briandoll »

In the US, the dairy industry tried this and thankfully lost (in California): The Animal Legal Defense Fund represented Miyoko’s Kitchen in its challenge of unconstitutional restrictions placed on plant-based dairy products’ marketing and labeling

Miyoko makes vegan cheese and brought the California Department of Food and Agriculture to court to challenge their ban on the term "cheese" to represent her products. She won.

https://aldf.org/article/miyokos-victorious-in-first-amendme...

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#23

Post by ggm »

This debate won't end in a hurry. We've been arguing about what beer is since the German beer laws and before. British Sausages cause hilarity in Europe. The idea that definitionally we can state a-priori what is or is not the current meaning of a term when language itself is plastic is kind of broken because the distinction between Cows, Cattle, Beef, Veal, Bison, Oxen, Bullock and Bull, Buffalo and Bison and Cow, Game or farmed, Fresh or was that snap-frozen, is endless.

Cut a "steak" off that plank, no no not cross-grain, I meant along the grain. Ok so nobody calls a plank a steak. but we do talk about "grain" in muscle and wood, and guess what, "grain" introduces legal nightmares when it comes to labelling cuts of meat, and wood.

A very cross-grained argument. Oh yea, "corn" and "wheat" are knocking at the door ever since english encountered the americas.

If we succeed in growing cell cultures from samples as in Kornbluth and Pohl's "Space Merchant" chicken Little (1950s) or Asimov's 'zymoveal' (1950s) what are we going to call it? Is cell cultured meat still meat and this is just an attack on the plants?

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#24

Post by viraptor »

markstos wrote: post #10

The US meat and dairy industry have asked for similar bans as well. The problem is, consumers aren't actually confused. Different names will used if need be and consumers will continue the trend of reducing their meat consumption for environmental, health, or ethical reasons.

Depends what you classify as confused. I'm a consumer for both meat and plant based replacements. Sometimes it takes slightly longer to verify which one is which when they're next to each other in the shop. It's not a big issue, I don't think I'd actually ever buy the wrong one, just mildly annoying.

Although some are on the extreme side. If you put this next to actual bacon and I'm in a rush with a kid, I could imagine not noticing https://postimg.cc/BLc8qQLW

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#25

Post by phs318u »

Considering how little actual meat protein can be in 'sausages' and the extent to which 'boutique' sausages make a marketing point of the non-meat content of the sausage, I find it ironic that products reducing the meat ratio to zero can't be labelled sausages.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#26

Post by xdennis »

briandoll wrote: post #22

In the US, the dairy industry tried this and thankfully lost (in California): The Animal Legal Defense Fund represented Miyoko’s Kitchen in its challenge of unconstitutional restrictions placed on plant-based dairy products’ marketing and labeling Miyoko makes vegan cheese and brought the California Department of Food and Agriculture to court to challenge their ban on the term "cheese" to represent her products. She…

That would be completely fair, assuming the reverse is true as well. That is, being able to sell real cheese as "vegan cheese" to trick vegans into eating it.

I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. They don't deserve protection either.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#27

Post by 0110101001 »

wolfgang42 wrote: post #17
mmastrac wrote: post #5

Not being able to use Sausage is ridiculous. It's a tube of something. It doesn't need to be meat. You already need a qualifier to understand what it's made from.

Since this is a law in France, trying to apply English definitions is probably unhelpful. Here’s my translation of the definition[1] from Dictionnaire de l'Académie française , the official French dictionary: > SAUCISSE (n) Intestine filled with chopped meats, most commonly pork, seasoned in various ways, which is often eaten hot. This does seem to fairly definitely exclude vegetarian options. [1] https://www.diction…

In the US, at least, most commercial sausages are made with artificial casings, rather than gut casings. I'd be surprised if that wasn't also the case in France as it makes industrial-scale production a lot easier without much difference in end product.

Despite their efforts, dictionary definitions aren't always in sync with common usage, and it seems obvious that the latter is what we should regulate on.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#28

Post by xdennis »

markstos wrote: post #10

The US meat and dairy industry have asked for similar bans as well. The problem is, consumers aren't actually confused. Different names will used if need be and consumers will continue the trend of reducing their meat consumption for environmental, health, or ethical reasons.

> The problem is, consumers aren't actually confused.

Nonsense! I was tricked. They:

* make the products look like real sausages and cheese

* sell them in the same packages

* label them in large letters as the real thing

* write "vegan" in small letters

* put them next to the real things

It's all done to trick people.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#29

Post by jefftk »

xdennis wrote: post #26
briandoll wrote: post #22

In the US, the dairy industry tried this and thankfully lost (in California): The Animal Legal Defense Fund represented Miyoko’s Kitchen in its challenge of unconstitutional restrictions placed on plant-based dairy products’ marketing and labeling Miyoko makes vegan cheese and brought the California Department of Food and Agriculture to court to challenge their ban on the term "cheese" to represent her products. She…

That would be completely fair, assuming the reverse is true as well. That is, being able to sell real cheese as "vegan cheese" to trick vegans into eating it. I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. They don't deserve protection either.

The ruling was that they could call it things like "vegan cheese", not an unqualified "cheese".

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#30

Post by Rodeoclash »

pkaye wrote: post #21
shireboy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was thinking this is going to lead to some cringey product names. "veak" and "vausage" for the uncreative and it goes downhill from there. Our family calls it "feat" for "fake meat"

I'm trademarking 5teak, 5ausage, Chee5e and Mi7k.

Sounds like what's on the menu at The Black Sun in Snow Crash
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