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Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

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Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#51

Post by swebs »

pmarin wrote: post #24
giancarlostoro wrote: post #14

Whats embarassing here is that Spain now joins the likes of China and Russia regardless of whom in the government sent the request , at least in the context of government takedowns. https://github.com/github/gov-takedowns/ This is quite shameful.

It not the government but the judicial authorities, we have distribution of power. It's embarrassing that the title is intentionally misleading.

>A government is the system or group of people governing an organized community, often a state.[1]

>In the case of its broad associative definition, government normally consists of legislature, executive, and judiciary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#52

Post by colechristensen »

pmarin wrote: post #12

The title is intentionally misleading. It's not the government but the judicial authorities, in Spain we have distribution of power. From the take down notice: > In Spain, judicial authorities are responsible for the supervision and control of websites in order to prevent the dissemination of criminal content as it is specified in the article 35 of our Law 34/2002 and the article 13 of our Criminal Procedure Code.

In American English government is generally used as an overarching term and any judiciary would fit inside. We have three separate pieces: judicial, legislative, and executive (as well as shared-sovereignty with states which each have similar systems)

An American reading the title wouldn't be mislead (we're generally confused when other countries talk about forming new governments) but an English-fluent person from another parliamentary country might be misled.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#53

Post by StavrosK »

jannes wrote: post #11
demarq wrote: post #8

A) A little late now, since as is stated in the letter people are already mirroring the repo B) can the app really be spreading that fast, if people are having to download it from github, and override their devices security settings to install it? Also the words "serious public disorder" send chills down my spine for some reason. It sounds like it's right out of some dystopian movie.

> Also the words "serious public disorder" send chills down my spine for some reason. It's unclear who translated the letter. It may have been a github employee. In the original it says "graves desórdenes públicos" which could also be translated as "grave public disturbances". The word "desorden" definitely doesn't have a medical connotation as "disorder" has in English.

Doesn't "public disorder" in English have the same meaning as in Spanish here (i.e. not medical)?

For example, https://batasnatin.com/law-library/criminal-law/crimes-and-p...

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#54

Post by banjodeluxe »

zozbot234 wrote: post #45
banjodeluxe wrote: post #35

For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…

> developed an app that allows people to know where demonstrations are happening Sounds like a bit of welcomed transparency to me. The Spanish police, concerned citizenry, etc. can use the app just as much as anyone else, to prevent things from getting out of hand. (*Edited for consistency with newly-provided info in this HN thread.)

Yeah I agree that there's a chance that might be the case - might be outrageous misrepresentation, takedown to crackdown on the movement, etc.. But I personally decide to give the system a little trust at least at first and like to think that the Spanish authorities who ordered this will have real reasons to base their decision on - with time we'll see I guess.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#55

Post by [deleted] »

ricardbejarano wrote: post #15
justinclift wrote: post #3

Not 100% sure of the repo name, as it's not displayed in the document. At a guess this is the one, and it still seems to be on GitHub: https://github.com/tsunamidemocratic/tsunamidemocratic.githu... The GitHub pages hosted website still seems to be online too: https://tsunamidemocratic.github.io Perhaps GitHub is publishing the request, but isn't complying with the takedown?

The website redirects to http://82.223.97.47/ (site was taken down by the judicial authority) if you connect from Spain.

[deleted]

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#56

Post by joking »

StavrosK wrote: post #44
joking wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tsunami app it's trying to build a decentralized network on a way that anonymous individuals can control and send messages to specific peers, to coordinate "peaceful" demonstrations and make noise on their independence desire. They managed to close the access to Barcelona airport and disturb the lives of thousands of individuals, and their plan is to continue doing so in an anonymous and unaccountable way. Spanis…

> their plan is to continue doing so in an anonymous and unaccountable way. I mean, the politicians who tried to do this in an eponymous and accountable way got prison sentences, so...

They misused the political institutions for their benefit and pushed their agenda even when they have been warned several times of the penal consequences. There can be disagreement with the conviction time, but they are not innocents.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#57

Post by jarfil »

zozbot234 wrote: post #45
banjodeluxe wrote: post #35

For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…

> developed an app that allows people to know where demonstrations are happening Sounds like a bit of welcomed transparency to me. The Spanish police, concerned citizenry, etc. can use the app just as much as anyone else, to prevent things from getting out of hand. (*Edited for consistency with newly-provided info in this HN thread.)

It's transparency when the information is about protest planned for the next day or further in the future.

It's less clear cut when it becomes more of a "barrier has been breached on this street" along with "cops are moving to this other street" in realtime.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#58

Post by RHSeeger »

ahbyb wrote: post #28
kolanos wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a judicial authority not a part of the government?

Seems like an American point of view to see it like that. The government does not control what the judges rule, that's what it means.

It's not so much an American "point of view" as it is their definition of the word. It appears that Spain defines the government as the executive branch, while the US (and several other English speaking countries) defines it as an umbrella covering the various branches (in the US; executive, judicial, legislative).

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#59

Post by tumetab1 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #45
banjodeluxe wrote: post #35

For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…

> developed an app that allows people to know where demonstrations are happening Sounds like a bit of welcomed transparency to me. The Spanish police, concerned citizenry, etc. can use the app just as much as anyone else, to prevent things from getting out of hand. (*Edited for consistency with newly-provided info in this HN thread.)

Not sure what people opinions are when the judicial system has

> the movement Tsunami Democratic has been confirmed as a criminal organization driving people to commit terrorist attacks

So any material support to a criminal organization is criminal per se in most jurisdictions.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#60

Post by couchand »

Nasrudith wrote: post #18
pmarin wrote: post #12

The title is intentionally misleading. It's not the government but the judicial authorities, in Spain we have distribution of power. From the take down notice: > In Spain, judicial authorities are responsible for the supervision and control of websites in order to prevent the dissemination of criminal content as it is specified in the article 35 of our Law 34/2002 and the article 13 of our Criminal Procedure Code.

I am not sure if the terminology is used differently in Spain (pre-translation of course) but that would be parsed as government by the US standards even with separation of power given the citation of specific laws by said government. Granted here it is used as the omnibus term as opposed to its own division.

In parliamentary systems, the term "government" frequently refers to the current governing party or coalition.
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