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Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

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Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#51

Post by Retric »

f_allwein wrote: post #7

[2016]. Having worked at Google’s Search Quality Evaluation team, I can confirm that Google would only manually remove sites from its search results if they violate its webmaster guidelines: https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/35769?hl=en Of course, there can be other issues preventing a site from showing up in the search results (e.g. site migration issues, accidentally locking out Googlebot in robots.txt,…

It's interesting, but this is probably one of the reasons google has become so terrible. It's treating searches as a game, not something it needs to improve. Resulting in a steady decline year after year.

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#53

Post by tobltobs »

mquander wrote: post #48
joosters wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Google's recommended way of reporting a problem is to post on a forum that Google themselves don't officially read (or promise any kind of response)? Do you understand why some people might not think that's a satisfactory solution?

One might think that how satisfactory it is depends on how well it works. The parent is asserting it works pretty well.

He doesn't assert it works pretty well, he just says it is the best option.

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#54

Post by dvdkhlng »

rocqua wrote: post #45
dvdkhlng wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* https://posteo.de/en * https://mailbox.org posteo implements multiple encryption schemes: encrypt incoming mails with GPG (making them inaccessible by any end device not having the corresponding secret key). Or encrypt via the login passphrase with transparent decryption on authorized access.

It is great data hygiene to use encryption at rest. However, it gives no security guarantees. You still need to trust posteo. If posteo wants, they can read all incoming email. Their security scheme depends solely on their good intentions. Still great that their data at rest is encrypted in a way even they cannot read. The scheme does defend against third parties outside of posteo being able to access data, or coerce…

> Posteo could probably still be coerced to push out a fraudulent client update that still breaks their encrpytion, but that is a very hard problem to deal with.

They are based in Germany and would need to be coerced in accordance to german law. I don't think that there is something like National Security Letters in Germany, so doing such a thing without (eventual?) public disclosure seems unlikely.

Also posteo regularly releases as much information as they are allowed to regarding their interaction with law enforcement, e.g.:

https://posteo.de/en/site/transparency_report

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#55

Post by briandear »

awestroke wrote: post #9

Anyone know a good alternative to ProtonMail with no ties to the Israeli Military? Preferably European.

Are you wanted by the Israeli military? And, do you actually have any evidence of "ties" beyond ridiculous conspiracy theories? Radware isn't the "Israeli Military" -- and even if they were, I'd trust them more than I'd trust, say France [1] or any EU country for that matter -- even Germany. [2]

[1] https://www.hrw.org/news/2013/12/26/french-contradictions-da... [2] https://www.opendemocracy.net/digitaliberties/sara-bundtzen/...

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#56

Post by flipp3r »

abricot wrote: post #44
flipp3r wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the parent post was saying is that anyone can print out a piece of paper with your mail address on it, complain on twitter, and ProtonMail's feeling-based policy will have you banned.

Feeling-based? That is bulshit. Do you have other examples than the obvious white-pride hate-group?

We're now 5+ posts down the tree and people still aren't getting the post, probably the reason it was flagged and silenced.

Currently a human is making the judgement call to ban someone, based on their feelings. They could very well be looking at misinformation, but have no way of verifying.

The address banned could be completely unrelated to this hate group, maybe the hate group doesn't even exist, this is the point the poster was making. You easily can misinform, and get someone behind a protonmail address banned.

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#57

Post by rocqua »

dvdkhlng wrote: post #54
rocqua wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is great data hygiene to use encryption at rest. However, it gives no security guarantees. You still need to trust posteo. If posteo wants, they can read all incoming email. Their security scheme depends solely on their good intentions. Still great that their data at rest is encrypted in a way even they cannot read. The scheme does defend against third parties outside of posteo being able to access data, or coerce…

> Posteo could probably still be coerced to push out a fraudulent client update that still breaks their encrpytion, but that is a very hard problem to deal with. They are based in Germany and would need to be coerced in accordance to german law. I don't think that there is something like National Security Letters in Germany, so doing such a thing without (eventual?) public disclosure seems unlikely. Also posteo regul…

There are other methods of coercion than courts, but I agree that the German courts are probably much safer than the American courts.

In any case, the fraudulent client update is a very hard hole to patch. The only solution for this I know of is local hosting. At the moment, defending against this in web-apps is simply not possible.

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#58

Post by PhasmaFelis »

flipp3r wrote: post #56
abricot wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feeling-based? That is bulshit. Do you have other examples than the obvious white-pride hate-group?

We're now 5+ posts down the tree and people still aren't getting the post, probably the reason it was flagged and silenced. Currently a human is making the judgement call to ban someone, based on their feelings. They could very well be looking at misinformation, but have no way of verifying. The address banned could be completely unrelated to this hate group, maybe the hate group doesn't even exist, this is the point…

Please see my other post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15814530

For future reference, since the OP is now gone, the address in question was YouWillNotReplaceUs@protonmail.com.

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#59

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

dvdkhlng wrote: post #54
rocqua wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is great data hygiene to use encryption at rest. However, it gives no security guarantees. You still need to trust posteo. If posteo wants, they can read all incoming email. Their security scheme depends solely on their good intentions. Still great that their data at rest is encrypted in a way even they cannot read. The scheme does defend against third parties outside of posteo being able to access data, or coerce…

> Posteo could probably still be coerced to push out a fraudulent client update that still breaks their encrpytion, but that is a very hard problem to deal with. They are based in Germany and would need to be coerced in accordance to german law. I don't think that there is something like National Security Letters in Germany, so doing such a thing without (eventual?) public disclosure seems unlikely. Also posteo regul…

German intelligence services in the past just listened to all traffic at internet exchange points. No need for national security letters.

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#60

Post by fastball »

joosters wrote: post #47
f_allwein wrote: post #7

[2016]. Having worked at Google’s Search Quality Evaluation team, I can confirm that Google would only manually remove sites from its search results if they violate its webmaster guidelines: https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/35769?hl=en Of course, there can be other issues preventing a site from showing up in the search results (e.g. site migration issues, accidentally locking out Googlebot in robots.txt,…

So Google's recommended way of reporting a problem is to post on a forum that Google themselves don't officially read (or promise any kind of response)? Do you understand why some people might not think that's a satisfactory solution?

It's not like you have a right to appear in Google's search results...

I'll rag on Google's poor support as much as the next guy, but only when it's warranted. ProtonMail and anyone else that gets delisted / what-have-you is not Google's client and shouldn't expect first-class support for things like this.

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