We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly • Hacker News Board

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#491

Post by mbrumlow » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

tjoff wrote: post #471

mbrumlow wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a publicly traded company has the fiduciary obligation to make its shareholders money. So it really does not matter what the "the people" want, it matters what the shareholders want. In fact, the board and executive team are legally required to make the the decisions that make increase the value of the company. They could be in real trouble with the law if they knowingly do something that devalues the company.…

Nope. Now if you give the impression that you are all bout money but don't act like it then shareholders can be rightfully upset. But if you clearly state your values and ambitions and shareholders don't like it? Then, sucks to be them! There is nothing more to it than that. Serving shareholders’ “best interests” is not the same thing as either maximizing profits, or maximizing shareholder value. "Shareholder value,"…

I am sorry, I think both you and Lynn Stout, are wrong, regardless of her credentials -- she sort of is making a name of her self by swing this sort of nonsense -- so her articles are self serving.

And yes, we can define shareholder value -- its the stock price. But I see your point and why I have talked about the grey area of what is the best move. But you would be hard pressed to find a group of shareholders who who all agree not taking big contracts is going to be the best move.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#492

Post by taobility » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

headsupftw wrote: post #316

Puer wrote: post #38

I considered working at Google last year after a recruiter reached out to me, but their decision to backtrack on their promise in China changed my mind. I do not morally condemn anyone who works at Google. I have many good friends that are both bright engineers and undeniably good people that work there. I just feel that as someone who's family is Taiwanese, I cannot in good consciousness support the company. I let t…

Do you in good consciousness support the U.S. government? I'm asking because the government doesn't recognize Taiwan as an independent country and kicked Taiwan out of the United Nations in 1971.

haha, your question killed him

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#493

Post by thrower123 » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 7:43 PM UTC

alexandercrohde wrote: post #138

thrower123 wrote: post #17

So, 36 people (at present, anyway) sign a letter. What in the flying frig is that actually supposed to accomplish? There's nothing really actionable here; you've got the nothingness of "that leadership commit to transparency, clear communication, and real accountability." Are these people going to actually do anything - quit in protest, sabotage, what? No, they are going to whine, and keep drawing their very lucrativ…

"So friggin what? One black lady refuses to give her seat up on a bus to a white person? Is she really actually going to do anything?"

She did actually do something, and engage in an act of civil disobedience, and get arrested. Not sign a mildly written letter.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#494

Post by partiallypro » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 7:44 PM UTC

beams_of_light wrote: post #490

If you think that denying information to Chinese people because their Orwellian government demands it is the same as the stone you use to grind your obviously conservative axe on, you may need to pause and think a bit more on it.

I distinctly drew a line between the two, and I am not a conservative.

If you think Google not wanting to work with the U.S. military is some "conservative" axe, I think you likely live in a bubble.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#495

Post by rmc » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 7:44 PM UTC

I hope they get somewhere. There's a tactic that has historically been quite effective. A strike. Sysadmins can't be replaced on a moments notice, taking weeks to get up to speed. If google.com 404s for a few minutes, management will talk to you.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#496

Post by SlowRobotAhead » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 7:44 PM UTC

neetodavid wrote: post #440

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a naysayer, your goal is mostly to spread FUD and take the shine off their bauble. WOW. Yes, that must be it. I can't possibly have an opinion about the matter that doesn't align with yours because surely you are right! The only logical option here is I am spreading fear uncertainty and doubt - because I'm Google and this directly impacts me. Anyone who disagrees must be silenced because they are wrong! EDIT: Nop…

I think you misinterpreted that message. I think "naysayer" is still referring to the working people who take a stand against something they feel is morally wrong. They should focus on the more 'real' business concerns so they can affect actions if not minds. Not that you are a "naysayer" and are trying to spread fear by commenting on this website.

>>As a naysayer, your goal is mostly to spread FUD and take the shine off their bauble.

Hmm, I must have misinterpreted that. Maybe you're right.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#497

Post by CydeWeys » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 7:45 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #455

whack wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something you've overlooked: companies are ultimately run by humans. Humans who make decisions at all levels of the hierarchy, in order to further their own personal priorities, even if it dramatically conflicts with the shareholders' goals of maximizing profits. In some cases, the personal priorities can be personal advancement. We see this all the time when managers hire/promote their friends, sexually hara…

Shareholders can do more than just fire the management team, they can set meaningful objectives and tie management compensation to reaching them.

Yeah, and then the CEO decides he'd rather make $124M that year and feel good about himself in not kowtowing to totalitarian governments vs doing so and making $125M that year. The entire point of this comment thread is that individual people are not motivated solely by money. They care about many other things too, like their values.

Hell, this entire post exists because some Google employees care more about their values than about making as much money as possible.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#498

Post by taobility » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 7:45 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #341

And if the employees placed thier values over profits, why are they still there? I wonder if they are going to refuse their stock based compensation?

Just like the ppl who said if Trump be elected as the president, they will leave USA, but till now, they are still here. I can't understand

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#499

Post by tomschlick » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 7:45 PM UTC

yarrel wrote: post #474

tomschlick wrote: post #443

> MRAP's are for combat, not police work While they were designed for combat, they are effectively the same thing that Brinks uses to transport money. They are meant to stop bad things from killing the people inside. They have 0 offensive weapons. They are entirely defensive vehicles that have been used to rescue downed officers, civilians in harms way (gunfire), and multiple times in natural disasters where other ve…

I'm going to go with the vets' opinion on this one. If Brinks trucks do the same work, use Brinks trucks. They are civilian vehicles and all of the tasks you list are civilian tasks. Militarization of the police force is a very, very, very bad idea.

> I'm going to go with the vets' opinion on this one.

Anecdotal opinions. I know plenty of vets who don't think MRAPs are a big deal at all.

> If Brinks trucks do the same work, use Brinks trucks.

Armored cars cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy and outfit from companies like Lenco. MRAPs are bought for ~$1k (transport costs) from the federal government.

> Militarization of the police force is a very, very, very bad idea.

If the vehicles do the same tasks, in mostly the same way, what's the difference?

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#500

Post by tjoff » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 7:46 PM UTC

mbrumlow wrote: post #491

tjoff wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Now if you give the impression that you are all bout money but don't act like it then shareholders can be rightfully upset. But if you clearly state your values and ambitions and shareholders don't like it? Then, sucks to be them! There is nothing more to it than that. Serving shareholders’ “best interests” is not the same thing as either maximizing profits, or maximizing shareholder value. "Shareholder value,"…

I am sorry, I think both you and Lynn Stout, are wrong, regardless of her credentials -- she sort of is making a name of her self by swing this sort of nonsense -- so her articles are self serving. And yes, we can define shareholder value -- its the stock price. But I see your point and why I have talked about the grey area of what is the best move. But you would be hard pressed to find a group of shareholders who wh…

If the companies value and ambition is to maximize the stock price then the stock price is a good metric. If the companies value is something else then stock price isn't really a good metric.

It will also attract shareholders that share those values and thus going against them will cause an uproar.