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We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

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Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#131

Post by GeneralMayhem »

patrickaljord wrote: post #26
fghtr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do you need two censored search engines? What would be the difference between them?

Google is technically superior to baidu in many areas, specially for a developers. It gives better answers in many subjects, not just the censored ones. Besides who are we to decide for the Chinese what is best for them? Sounds a bit condescending and paternalistic. Here here, baidu is enough for you to play with, don't bother with google.

This argument is backwards - Google isn't the one preventing Chinese people from using Google! Nobody has said that China isn't allowed to have Google except the CCP.

Google has already provided China with a product: uncensored search. If the Chinese (for the sake of argument, naively assuming that the CCP acts on behalf of its citizens) don't think that's what's best for China, fine. They don't have to use it.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#133

Post by kome »

nimbius wrote: post #33

Pretty bold. A lot of people are saying this wont work, but speaking from my own experience, you'd be surprised what companies are amicable to when it comes to business. Im an engine mechanic by trade, and our shops handle bids for cash strapped local governments that outsource their motor pool maintenance. We do things like fire trucks and police cars, but we were working on a new regional idea as a "service center"…

Beautiful and inspiring story.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#134

Post by melling »

orblivion wrote: post #63
melling wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google can't change the laws in China. Personally, I'd rather have Google in China if I lived there. It's a great tool. People should be made aware that there's a filter and all searches are made available to the government.

Come to think of it, that's exactly what it could do by refusing to do business with them. If China is left out in the cold for long enough they may move a little. That said, they need to be rewarded for moving or a boycott wouldn't help anything.

At this point you should realize that you're clearly wrong.

China is already the second largest economy and their goal is to be a world leader in AI by 2025. China isn't going to be left out of anything.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#135

Post by hnphillipj »

onion2k wrote: post #85
hnphillipj wrote: post #47

Given how trash of a search engine Baidu is, Google would likely achieve market share dominance in China within a couple years - should they move forward with Dragonfly. Complying with demands of the Chinese gov't is the only way they can penetrate the Chinese market. Search engine advertising constitutes close to 85% of Google's revenue. And unlike Project Maven, which was ended due to internal resistance from emplo…

doing business with the second largest economy in the world isn't an expendable venture Google could continue to operate profitably without doing business in China, so what makes your statement true?

The amount of additional profit Google can extract from an existing consumer pales in comparison to the profits generated from attracting a new user.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#136

Post by aibrahem »

As someone who lived most of his life in a dictatorship, I really struggle to understand the logic of these employees. I was actually surprised Google stepped out of China a couple of years ago and felt like the decision was taken by a bunch of people who don't understand what it's like to live in a non-democratic country.

Do they think that everybody in China cares that their internet is censored or that they're being watched? I'm pretty sure if there was a poll conducted inside China to choose between censored Google vs no-Google almost everybody would choose censored Google.

It's not like a person who's opposing the Chinese government online is going to be using Google without a secure connection anyway. For the rest, you're providing a service that is significantly better than what they're currently being offered.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#137

Post by resters »

But when the state was the US and the data it was trying to censor was from Wikileaks, Google (Schmidt) adopted a right wing stance and offered no help, and openly criticized Wikileaks like one would expect a defense contractor to do.

This absurd righteous indignation about China censorship is unbelievably hypocritical considering that nobody at Google tried to help Wikileaks shed light on US Government crimes.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#138

Post by alexandercrohde »

thrower123 wrote: post #17

So, 36 people (at present, anyway) sign a letter. What in the flying frig is that actually supposed to accomplish? There's nothing really actionable here; you've got the nothingness of "that leadership commit to transparency, clear communication, and real accountability." Are these people going to actually do anything - quit in protest, sabotage, what? No, they are going to whine, and keep drawing their very lucrativ…

"So friggin what? One black lady refuses to give her seat up on a bus to a white person? Is she really actually going to do anything?"

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#139

Post by orangecat »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #41

I respect the motivation of the people behind this but I disagree with the logic here. It seems to be a zero or none type of logic. Are Chinese better off with not having google search engine as a choice, even if censored and having only local options, or are they better off having at least some choice, even if that choice is censored? I think it's the second, not the first.

The Chinese people may or may not be better off with a censored Google. The rest of the world would be worse off with a Google that has to take orders from the Chinese government.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#140

Post by PavlovsCat »

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #95

OH these fresh young naive minds, who think censorship never happens. Censorship happens ALL THE TIME. The Radio, TV, and Film industries in the USA - they have all been censored, from the very beginning.[1] So it was self-censorship at the behest of the government. What's the difference? Censorship is all around us. Americans self-censor tits and genitals, Europeans self-censor violence. Censorship is everywhere. I…

> I think this whole discussion is extremely naive.

As in, every single comment in it states that censorship wouldn't exist if Google didn't cooperate with China on this? Or that there is just "censorhip" or "no censorship", without any further qualification or context?

That's clearly not the case, so what is this even in response to?

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