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More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

theguardian.com

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Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#481

Post by BehindBlueEyes »

Eisenstein wrote: post #258
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Few people would care if you cut off a piece of steak from a hanging slab The analogy here would be watching a live cow get slaughtered and then butchered from scratch in front of you, which I think most Western audiences (more than a few) might not like.

A cow walks into the kitchen, it gets a captive bolt shoved into its brain with a person holding a compressed air tank. Its hide is ripped off and it is cut into two pieces with all of its guts on the ground and the flesh and bones now hang as slabs. I am asserting that you could do all of that in front of a random assortment of modern Americans, and then cut steaks off of it and grill them and serve them to half of…

I'm a 100% sure none of my colleagues would eat the steak if they could see the live cow get killed and skinned first. They wouldn't go to that restaurant to begin with and they'd lose their appetite entirely if they somehow made it there.

I probably also wouldn't want to eat that, but more because that steak will taste bad without being aged properly.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#482

Post by Zak »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #459
itake wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't do this. But other service providers do (Dropbox, Google, etc). Other service providers can scan for CSAM from the cloud, but Apple cannot. So Apple might be one of the largest CSAM hosts in the world, due to this 'feature'.

> Other service providers can scan for CSAM from the cloud I thought the topic was on-device scanning? The great-grandparent claim seemed to be that Apple had to choose between automatically uploading photos encrypted and not scanning them, vs. automatically uploading photos unencrypted and scanning them. The option for "just don't upload stuff at all, and don't scan it either" was conspicuously absent from the list…

I think FabHK is saying that Apple planned to offer iCloud users the choice of unencrypted storage with server-side scanning, or encrypted storage with client-side scanning. It was only meant to be for things uploaded to iCloud, but deploying such technologies for any reason creates a risk of expansion.

Apple itself has other options, of course. It could offer encrypted or unencrypted storage without any kind of scanning, but has made the choice that it wants to actively check for CSAM in media stored on its servers.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#483

Post by BehindBlueEyes »

Shorel wrote: post #351
narrator wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, these jobs are horrible. However, I do know from accidently encountering bad stuff on the internet that you want to be as far away from a modern battlefield as possible. It's just kind of ridiculous how people think war is like Call of Duty. One minute you're sitting in a trench, the next you're a pile of undifferentiated blood and guts. Same goes for car accidents and stuff. People really underestimate how frag…

> Becoming aware of this is super damaging to our concept of normal life. Not being aware of this is also a cause of traffic accidents. People should be more careful driving.

You can be aware without having to see the most gruesome parts of it to a point where it is traumatizing and damaging.

I've seen the crumpled metal of a car, I don't need to see the people inside to know it is not good.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#484

Post by noduerme »

llm_trw wrote: post #166
noduerme wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did that go away, if people only do what they're brought up to do?

We found out that keeping people homeless to die of exposure slowly was much more effective at keeping the majority in line.

No one is actively trying to keep people homeless or watch them die on the streets, much less use that as a lesson to keep people in line. Drawing and quartering is way more scary and effective if you want to make people obey. You're just mixing nihilistic bitterness with outright nonsense.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#485

Post by shadowerm »

Eisenstein wrote: post #143
nradov wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to trivialize traumatic experiences but I think many modern people, especially the pampered members of the professional-managerial class, have become too disconnected from reality. Anyone who has hunted or butchered animals is well aware of the fragility of life. This doesn't damage our concept of normal life.

What is it about partaking in or witnessing the killing of animals or humans that makes one more connected to reality?

No irony in this comment lol.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#486

Post by FabHK »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #214
FabHK wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The choice was between "we will upload your pictures unencrypted and do with them as we like, including scan them for CSAM" vs. "we will upload your pictures encrypted and keep them encrypted, but will make sure beforehand on your device only that there's no known CSAM among it".

> we will upload your pictures unencrypted and do with them as we like Curious, I did not realize Apple sent themselves a copy of all my data, even if I have no cloud account and don't share or upload anything. Is that true?

No. The entire discussion only applies to images being uploaded (or about to be uploaded) to iCloud. By default in iOS all pictures are saved locally only (so the whole CSAM scanning discussion would not have applied anyway), but that tends to fill up a phone pretty quickly.

With the (optional) iCloud, you can (optionally) activate iCloud Photos to have a photo library backed up in the cloud and shared among all your devices (and, in particular, with only thumbnails and metadata stored locally and the full resolution pictures only downloaded on demand).

These are always encrypted, with either the keys being with Apple ("Standard Data Protection") so that they're recoverable when the user loses phone or password, or E2E ("Advanced Data Protection") if the user so choses, thus irrecoverable.

It seems to me that in the latter case images are not scanned at all (neither on device nor in the cloud), and it's unclear to me whether they're scanned in the former case.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#487

Post by dialup_sounds »

sneak wrote: post #479
dialup_sounds wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the first amendment obligates companies to let you share kiddie porn via their services.

You misunderstand me. The issue is that Apple is theoretically being retaliated against, by the state, if they were to publish non-backdoored e2ee software. Apple does indeed in theory have a right to release whatever iOS features they like. In practice, they do not. Everyone kind of tacitly acknowledged this, when it was generally agreed upon that Apple was doing the on-device scanning thing "so they can deploy e2ee…

Why would Apple want to add E2EE to iCloud Photos without CSAM detection?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#488

Post by int_19h »

newsclues wrote: post #455
int_19h wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that the purported advantages of AK action over its competitors in this regard are rather drastically overstated in popular culture. E.g. take a look at these two vids showing how AK vs AR-15 handle lots of mud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU As far as cleaning, AK, like many guns of that era, carries its own cleaning & maintenance toolkit in…

Main advantage in the Ukraine conflict for AKs is the ammo availablility.

The only small arms cartridge plant that Ukraine had originally was in Luhansk, so it got captured even before 2022. It's only this year that they've got a new plant operational, but it produces both 5.45 and 5.56.

And Western supplies are mostly 5.56 for obvious reasons, although there are some exceptions - mostly countries that have switched fairly late and still have substantial stocks of 5.45, such as Bulgaria. But those are also limited in quantity.

So in practice it's not quite so simple, and Ukraine seems to be aiming for 5.56 as their primary cartridge long-term, specifically so that it's easier for Western countries to supply them with guns and ammo.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#489

Post by com2kid »

newsclues wrote: post #454
com2kid wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You need ammo, spare parts, lubricant and cleaning tools. The ak-47 famously only needs the first item in that list. That being the key to its popularity.

If you think the AKs in use in Russia and Ukraine aren’t getting regular maintenance, cleaning and spare parts, I don’t think you’re watching enough of the content coming out of the war zone. Soldiering isn’t sexy, it’s digging trenches, cleaning kit, and eating concussive blasts waiting to fight or die. You don’t sit in a bunker all day waiting to defend a trench and not clean your gun.

It was largely a joke, but even so famously many of the AKs used in various other conflicts were buried in backyards in-between wars.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#490

Post by sneak »

dialup_sounds wrote: post #487
sneak wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand me. The issue is that Apple is theoretically being retaliated against, by the state, if they were to publish non-backdoored e2ee software. Apple does indeed in theory have a right to release whatever iOS features they like. In practice, they do not. Everyone kind of tacitly acknowledged this, when it was generally agreed upon that Apple was doing the on-device scanning thing "so they can deploy e2ee…

Why would Apple want to add E2EE to iCloud Photos without CSAM detection?

The same reason they made iMessage e2ee, which happened many years before CSAM detection was even a thing.

User privacy. Almost nobody trades in CSAM, but everyone deserves privacy.

Honestly, this isn’t about CSAM at all. It’s about government surveillance. If strong crypto e2ee is the hundreds-of-millions-of-citizens device default, and there is no backdoor, the feds will be upset with Apple.

This is why iCloud Backup (which is a backdoor in iMessage e2ee) is not e2ee by default and why Apple (and the state by extension) can read all of the iMessages.

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