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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#481

Post by nicce »

crazygringo wrote: post #394
bilekas wrote: post #357

What really bothers me about the coverage of this, and I'm not totally anti media etc, was that nobody mentioned on the fact that the tracking system lost contact also. It was only mentioned that the communications was lost, if there had of been media mentioning that the tracking device also lost contact, I think a lot of people would have recognised straight await that it was a critical collapse. No deep gauge devic…

Can you expand? To a layman like myself, tracking is part of communications and it seemed clear there was no tracking because they didn't know where the sub was. What is the specific type of tracking device you're referring to? What signals does it emit? And if overall power was lost, for example, why wouldn't the tracking stop just like communications stopped?

Both will be lost at the same time. We don't really know such signal.

Submarines cannot communicate more hundred meters in the bottom of sea. Sea water absorbs the signal quite well.

When the signal is lost, the expectation is that the submarine is under the water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#482

Post by hindsightbias »

btgeekboy wrote: post #220
accrual wrote: post #157

Here are a couple of quotes I pulled from the USCG press release: > "debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel" > "1600 feet (487 meters) from the wreck of the Titanic" > "it is a smooth bottom", "there is no wreckage of the Titanic in the area" > "size of the debris field is consistent with an implosion in the water column" > "there doesn't seem to be any connection between the noises and the…

Part of me has been wondering if the noises being heard might be an unexpected discovery of a military (Russian, Chinese, US) submarine operating in the general area. Don’t they submerge for long periods of time without comms?

SOSUS knows where everything is. It recorded the USS Thresher sinking in 1958.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOSUS

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#483

Post by belorn »

nicce wrote: post #454
belorn wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not read too much into it. Media coverage in this context is mostly about how sensentional and novel the news is. People get lost at sea all the time, in particularly in fishing and shipping industry. The average person is very similar to those people and yet such events dont generally create international news.

It is less about the media but more about the response of officials. How many boats were send to look for a single submarine? All the way from the France? When they could have been sent to Mediterranean sea as well.

How many boats are sent international if a fishing boat outside Thailand or Norway don't return home? What if a old transport ship goes missing in a storm?

Occasionally we can see here on HN stories about lost sailors being rescued after weeks lost in the water, or shipwrecked on some remote rock. The common theme for those stories is that there wasn't a bunch of ships that went looking for them for weeks. For every person who survived such event, many more died.

When there is a lot of media coverage you also tend to get more reaction by officials, which then generate even more media coverage. It is the same concept why a individual can create a story on HN and reach people at google/facebook/apple, while thousands of users can have an identical situation and never reach a single person from support. It not a fair system but its a very well understood phenomenon.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#484

Post by gamblor956 »

bambax wrote: post #425
seattle_anon wrote: post #166

Stockton Rush (OceanGate's CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0] My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment. Please remember that, for some members o…

Good video. Some excerpts: "If you're not breaking things, you're not innovating. If you're operating in a known environment as most submersible manufacturers do, they don't break things." (8:49) "Our rule is we risk capital, we don't risk people." (9:56) "We used the same prepreg that's used on the 787." (11:15) And my favorite: "When you're outside the box, it's really hard to tell how far outside the box you reall…

Aircraft grade aluminum is 2024 or 7075, not 6061, because those alloys are more resistant to fatigue from repeated pressurization cycles.

6061 is more commonly used in automotives than in aircraft.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#485

Post by nicce »

isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #477
nicce wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is less about the media but more about the response of officials. How many boats were send to look for a single submarine? All the way from the France? When they could have been sent to Mediterranean sea as well.

Why would you send specialized submarine search and recovery ships to Mediterranean? If makes zero sense, they serve very different purpose.

Exactly. You use a lot of resources to send help on the other side of the world for people who volunteeringly went to bottom of the ocean knowing risks and just for fun.

But you don't use resources to help people who are forced to leave their country and now are drowning in the sea.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#486

Post by sokoloff »

stef25 wrote: post #379
lm28469 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And of course the average person here is probably a lot closer to taking a holiday trip in a submersible than to taking a refugee boat across the Mediterranean. My opinion is the complete opposite, I think it has more coverage because it's a feel good event for 90% of the world who absolutely despise rich fucks in that specific part of the dumb X rich venn diagram I haven't seen a single post about how sad the sub…

It's not so much stupidity as knowingly embarking on a dangerous adventure for the purpose of fun, basically. Someone who took the trip before said they had to sign a waver which mentioned death multiple times. It's like climbing Everest, walking to the north pole, commercial space flights, base jumping etc. The med disaster was people embarking on a dangerous "adventure" out of what they perceived as being a necessi…

I’ve signed “you could die” waivers several times in my life. That might be more a commentary on the state of our legal system than on my level of risk-seeking.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#487

Post by 0x0203 »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #93
ak_111 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it more likely that it immediately imploded rather than after a few days? The latter is more probable to me as it has never been tested under water for more than a few hours at a stretch. This will also be consistent with your banging hypothesis which was only heard after a day or two when it got lost. And also with the fact that no immediate sound disturbance was registered with the controlling ship. I of cou…

If the sub imploded after the search had begun, would the search vessels have detected the sound?

The USCG admiral coordinating the search effort and doing all the press briefs said that yes, they most likely would have heard it if it happened after they got the listening buoys in the water.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#488

Post by jacquesm »

bambax wrote: post #471
Hamuko wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He seemed especially proud about combining titanium and carbon fibre against the advice of others, which seems to now have been in a pretty active role in the demise of the Titan. > "I'd like to be remembered as an innovator. I think it was General MacArthur who said "you're remembered for the rules you break." And I've broken some rules to make this. I think I've broken them with logic and good engineering behind me…

James Cameron is extremely critical of the design of the sub, and of Rush's attitude [0]. He says that carbon fiber was a very poor choice and that it had been known for a very long time, and that "deep submerged diving is a mature art". If you think you're going to reinvent the wheel and bypass regulatory bodies and ignore subject experts, and move fast and break things, you're delusional. Any baby can break things;…

Exactly. What really gets me is that he would subject passengers - one of which is a teenager - to this kind of risk. It really gets me, that kid probably had absolutely no clue about the real level of risk involved.

Carbon is fantastic stuff if used properly, used improperly it will seem to be perfect right up to the point where it fails catastrophically.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#489

Post by nicce »

belorn wrote: post #483
nicce wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is less about the media but more about the response of officials. How many boats were send to look for a single submarine? All the way from the France? When they could have been sent to Mediterranean sea as well.

How many boats are sent international if a fishing boat outside Thailand or Norway don't return home? What if a old transport ship goes missing in a storm? Occasionally we can see here on HN stories about lost sailors being rescued after weeks lost in the water, or shipwrecked on some remote rock. The common theme for those stories is that there wasn't a bunch of ships that went looking for them for weeks. For every…

I am not sure if it is the case this time.

The response on sending rescue teams was high even before it got popular on the news. I remember reading some statements that "we sent everything we can" in the very first news.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#490

Post by jacquesm »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #464
scotty79 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why they didn't just drop it to the bottom of the ocean without people hundred times to see if it still holds. Who experiments with a crew in the age of remote control sensors and computers?

`Over the years it has carried out more than 200 dives with its three submersible vessels in the Atlantic, Pacific and Gulf of Mexico.`

But not with the same hull. So that's a bit of a tricky statement.

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/oceangate-raises-18m-build-big...

They didn't change the name and technically the cylinder is just another part but it suggests that the same hull was used which isn't correct as far as I read it.

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