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How poverty changes your mindset

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Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#481

Post by runako »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #250
runako wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this modulo American healthcare means a lot of people who follow this script still end up with nothing. This is especially the case for entry-level jobs and other careers that are more available to the newly arrived. If you work in a median-income job and are miserly for a long time and save up a year's income, you will have around $60k in the bank. Since you don't have a pension, materially all of this will b…

Your retirement savings have creditor protections - if you have hospital bills you cannot pay, you can go through bankruptcy or another non-payment strategy with your retirement savings largely intact. It sucks ruining your credit with a bankruptcy event, but it beats out draining your retirement plans.

That's a good point. I could probably quibble with the practical aspects of the approach (e.g. job loss resulting from medical catastrophe), but you're right that you could probably preserve some of your retirement assets.

The flip side is this is a contributing factor in everyone's healthcare costs being so high.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#482

Post by [deleted] »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #270
linkmotif wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there’s necessarily a conflict between having empathy for people unconditionally while still asking questions like: if times were at one point good or OK but you’ve fallen into hard times now, why did you not have savings? People ask these questions because being miserly to save is hard and unpleasant, and then when others seemingly haven’t saved, it’s emotionally difficult helping them. I see people us…

> if times were at one point good or OK but you’ve fallen into hard times now, why did you not have savings? The size of income is not the only difference between people. People can have different families, get different informal education at home, etc. If you are poor but smart, and so is your family, and you love and help each other... there is a chance you will sooner or later get out of poverty somehow; as long a…

[deleted]

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#483

Post by jopsen »

refurb wrote: post #384
jopsen wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, I find it "funny" (tragicomical) when poor Americans lists expenses and then complain about how much income tax they pay. To be fair, the poor have a high tax burden in the US compared to other industrialized countries. And they get fairly little for their taxes... Still an Uber driver who complains about taxes being high is sad, because lower taxes will only hurt him.

Not sure that's true. If you're low income enough you don't pay taxes and actually get money back through the EITC.

What is the cutoff?

And yes, I didn't say they were rational players :)

Which the article says, we shouldn't expect.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#484

Post by linkmotif »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #270
linkmotif wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there’s necessarily a conflict between having empathy for people unconditionally while still asking questions like: if times were at one point good or OK but you’ve fallen into hard times now, why did you not have savings? People ask these questions because being miserly to save is hard and unpleasant, and then when others seemingly haven’t saved, it’s emotionally difficult helping them. I see people us…

> if times were at one point good or OK but you’ve fallen into hard times now, why did you not have savings? The size of income is not the only difference between people. People can have different families, get different informal education at home, etc. If you are poor but smart, and so is your family, and you love and help each other... there is a chance you will sooner or later get out of poverty somehow; as long a…

Yes, thank you for this. I think I did overlook this. I can see how this must be very prevalent.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#485

Post by rickyyean »

dizzystar wrote: post #254
RandomCSGeek wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During my childhood, my father's most of the income went into repaying loans. Luckily, we had our own house, so we didn't need to worry about getting homeless. But I remember I rarely got to spend money on any kind of "luxury". By luxury, I mean simple stuff like a icecream cone or a baloon. The effect it had on me is quite wierd. On one hand, I always wish to earn more so as to not have to go through that phase agai…

Yeah, I totally get this. I have no idea why people want stuff. I have one computer, one phone, one guitar, and so on. If I could own just one set of clothing, I'd be happy with that. It isn't frugality for me, it's just that I can't stand clutter and really, what I consider. I think I missed whatever the definition of having things means.

Maybe you're just conditioned to not want things from your childhood. I remember wanting to have nice sneakers in school because all the other kids had nice sneakers and they'd make fun of you if you don't. I'd spend time in footlocker just looking at the stuff they had or sift through my eastbay catalogs but never buy anything. I wasn't happy that we couldn't afford them but after seeing that we had to take out loans and borrow money just to make ends meet, my desire for sneakers quickly dissipated. Even to this day when I can afford nicer sneakers I don't really want them anymore...or anything else for that matter. I feel like I've completely inhibited desires for most things, except whenever I experience quality that matters, I see the point of spending money, but it's hard to know what they are until you experience them. For example, a nice mattress is a hugely valuable investment and quality actually matters, but I never felt the difference until I crashed at my friend's house and slept in his bed. I'm curious what are some things where a more expensive version of the same thing is actually 10x better than the cheap version?

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#486

Post by wetpaws »

autokad wrote: post #57
charlesdm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people think about a dollar as a dollar. They don't realise it's not worth focusing on saving a dollar here and there, if they then move ahead and overpay for a house or a car (e.g. by not negotiating). Half the battle is getting a good (or great) deal on expensive, one off purchases, if possible (say everything above $2k). Don't worry about the rest. As with everything: 20% of the "work" gets you 80% of the way…

> "Yes, Starbucks is expensive, but you're not going to go bankrupt drinking their coffee." I observed people spending 5$ both morning and lunch/day, but for arguments sake stick to 1/day. thats roughly 1300$/year. now imagine living paycheck to paycheck and spending that (very common). they end up taking on dept @20% interest. in a 5 year window, just that spending on starbucks is effectively costing them nearly 10,…

As someone said, you will not get rich by cutting pennies.

I spend about $50 on starbucks a month, mostly on weekends in the morning, $500/y would be not such a big gain. On the other hand the quality of life I'm getting without good morning coffee would be much, much worse.

If I would need extra $500 that bad, I would consider doing some side work or even changing the job.

It's very easy to go over the top of living frugal and forget what is the sole point of earning money and living your life in a first place.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#487

Post by DoreenMichele »

hestipod wrote: post #454
DoreenMichele wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was homeless for nearly 6 years. I got off the street last September. I am still quite poor. In fact, my bank account currently has zero in it and I don't get paid again until the 1st. I fairly frequently give my opinions on HN about poverty, homelessness, housing, women's issues and the negative impact being female has on my earned income. I try to be judicious and not do it too often. Testifying from firsthand ex…

Your posts always break my heart because, as you know, we share similar problems and needs and both cling to the same fraying thread. I am going to make my "hail mary" AskHN post today or tomorrow (keep editing and editing) and hope you might find something to cling to as well if people respond.

I don't recall if I mentioned it to you when we spoke previously, but there is also Moonlight. I don't know what your skills are or if that helps you.

https://www.moonlightwork.com

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#488

Post by DoreenMichele »

movedx wrote: post #349
DoreenMichele wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of comment I really hate seeing. It is almost always virtue signaling. People genuinely looking to help have zero problem finding my PayPal account or emailing me. The people who publicly offer assistance usually wind up really pissed off at me if I rudely try to take them up on it. It is gauche of me to take them seriously. They were just trying to look good in public for free. I am supposed to have…

> I find the entire thing annoying in the extreme because I have a Patreon account to help fund my blogging and I completely suck at promoting that. > I sincerely appreciate it anytime anyone actually kicks a few bucks my way when I am in crisis. But I would much prefer that people take me seriously, fund my Patreon and/or hire me for paid writing so that bitching about my shit life on the internet can stop being one…

Thank you for your sincerity and your email. I have already replied to your email. I apologize for you being the one who took it in the face here, but it is a kind of comment I absolutely do not want to see more of on the site for a long list of reasons.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." It isn't enough to mean well. Some ways of handling things simply do not work well.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#489

Post by skookumchuck »

andygates wrote: post #371
skookumchuck wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that about a third of the country would identify themselves as progressives, it's hard to see if they gave of their own free will, there wouldn't be plenty of help to the disadvantaged. But I rarely (never?) see any rhetoric in DNC politics about party members donating of their own free will to anything other than the Democratic party.

Virtue doesn't scale. Hence taxes for public good stuff because otherwise only the town with a generous Moneybags would have roads or a fire service (and the town with a racist Moneybags would only have a fire service in the white quarter). It's also hard to coordinate - see disaster response.

We're talking simply about charity. There are plenty of wealthy liberals - like Hollywood, Gates, Buffet, Silicon Valley, etc. All the people who donated to Sanders. Plenty of money to give to charity.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#490

Post by skookumchuck »

emodendroket wrote: post #405
skookumchuck wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that about a third of the country would identify themselves as progressives, it's hard to see if they gave of their own free will, there wouldn't be plenty of help to the disadvantaged. But I rarely (never?) see any rhetoric in DNC politics about party members donating of their own free will to anything other than the Democratic party.

Resources are unevenly distributed. Like, why don't the homeless all just pool their resources and buy a house?

Seattle votes heavily Democrat. There's only a tiny fraction of them in Seattle that are homeless.
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