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How poverty changes your mindset

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Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#301

Post by thomastjeffery »

redm wrote: post #15

I'm sure how people deal with stress and difficult situations varies from person to person. My personal story and 2-cents: When I was 17 I went through a period of near destitute. I was living on my own, my father had passed away, and I had dropped out of school. Yet, I found myself with some very good jobs, such as GE Capital, a big Oil and Gas companies IT department, etc. Regardless of the opportunity, my arroganc…

On the flip side, I have never experienced poverty, and don't have the motivation of "looking into oblivion" to push me into another dead-end job.

But does that mean I deserve that experience? Should I be put in a situation where I have to fight to survive? I think that is unreasonable.

There exist better motivations. I am capable of work that is much more attractive to me than entry-level labor jobs. The idea that I am less valuable as a person because I am dependent; or that I ought to be compelled by my social situation to do stressful unfulfilling work does not sit well with me. That is where I strongly disagree with Sen. Hatch.

We are capable as a society of helping more than the most destitute. We should promote individual liberty, so that people can do work they are passionate about. I don't believe that those living on welfare should be compelled to do work that they have no desire to do. We should instead work to provide them opportunity and counsel so that they can find their passion and follow it.

Taxation is theft, but the current Republican party (including Sen. Hatch) has used that as an excuse to push an agenda that works against those who are barely getting by, while working for those who have inherited obscene amounts of wealth. That, in my opinion, is worse than the theft itself.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#302

Post by zouhair »

kbart wrote: post #262
chlorophyl wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. I was destitute when I was 18, but I managed to come back through a series of part time jobs. I've always lived within my means but since my job do not really pay much anyway, it's very hard to save. Now that I'm 40 and poor again (lost my job due to cutbacks), it is impossible for me to recover. Getting new jobs are much harder and people are pretty discriminative towards my age. Nowadays, even em…

Why impossible? It's just a mindset. People do switch careers at >40 years, it's far from impossible.

If we go by anecdotes, I knew only two persons who switched careers at mid life successfully: one was a woman and the other a man and both had a spouse who brought decent money to the household and was supportive.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#303

Post by thomastjeffery »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #233
Waterluvian wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a safety net and it has enabled me to take risks I never would have if failure meant homelessness for my family. I think that's why all the trimmings of a "socialist" society are so attractive to me. I hear what you're saying. You felt motivated because there was nothing to enable your coasting. But it can also work in the other direction.

Unfortunately taking risks to better yourself and having it work out are the exception not the rule. And I have to assume that a non-socialist society supports this better in almost every way, based on historical evidence in my own head. (flawed as that may be)

Not taking risks (doing nothing) will never "work out".

Those who do not have the capital cannot take risks in the first place.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#304

Post by zouhair »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #264
zouhair wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most societies being poor is shameful, asking for help is twice as shameful. Even if someone that is poor and read your comment will most likely post an answer. When poor people get things for "free" (like charity, I hate charity) they actually pay with pride and dignity.

Depends on the form of charity (and that includes government assistance). Give me basic income, and I will feel no loss of dignity. Make me stand in a line for a few hours (what's the problem wasting my time, if I am unemployed anyway, right?), fill out a ton of paperwork, send me back to collect signatures from my former employers that I really did work for them three years ago (because everyone deserves to be told…

Definitely, this said I won't call basic income charity. The difference is that charity is not a right but BI is. The same way when big corporations receive millions and millions of dollars in government subsidies they don't "feel" it as charity.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#305

Post by thomastjeffery »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #228
movedx wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am still quite poor. In fact, my bank account currently has zero in it and I don't get paid again until the 1st. Are you OK? Do you need some financial support? Can you afford to eat? I can offer to buy food and have it delivered to you, or a near by shop (or something) if need be.

This is the kind of comment I really hate seeing. It is almost always virtue signaling. People genuinely looking to help have zero problem finding my PayPal account or emailing me. The people who publicly offer assistance usually wind up really pissed off at me if I rudely try to take them up on it. It is gauche of me to take them seriously. They were just trying to look good in public for free. I am supposed to have…

> The people who publicly offer assistance usually wind up really pissed off at me if I rudely try to take them up on it.

And goodness forbid you need more than the bare essentials, like a car, home, etc.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#306

Post by jopsen »

goatlover wrote: post #300
Hextinium wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservatives in the deep south I find have belief in this, they think that giving money to people that have none is fundamentally stealing from them through taxation and then giving it to someone that doesn't work as hard as them.

As opposed to giving it to defense contractors or farm subsidies. It's funny how conservatives only focus on tax dollars going to the poor.

Similarly, I find it "funny" (tragicomical) when poor Americans lists expenses and then complain about how much income tax they pay.

To be fair, the poor have a high tax burden in the US compared to other industrialized countries. And they get fairly little for their taxes... Still an Uber driver who complains about taxes being high is sad, because lower taxes will only hurt him.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#307

Post by brooklyn_ashey »

Cyph0n wrote: post #190
chaostheory wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes those people probably have homes, jobs, and a family and friends support network. With the homeless, they are missing more than one of those things, if not all of them. Is it even possible to have a prescription when you don't have a mailing address?

And is it even possible to get access to such drugs if you can't afford them and have no health insurance? Genuine question.

Not really in actual, regular, uninterrupted practice. There are so many problems with the US healthcare system at every level of it when you have excellent health insurance, especially in terms of regular maintenence medication for something as garden variety as asthma, that when you get down to the level of real emergency help absolutely medically required, it is usually a severely delayed and often interrupted swampy mess. I've been at both ends of this spectrum of care. Both are unreliable, but obviously, it is far worse-- a nightmare of indifference really, at the bottom. And many meds (like inhalers even) require ridiculously expensive, regular tests. The homeless and impoverished are often given less effective medication or ineffective medication to treat serious ongoing conditions.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#308

Post by Phronux »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #265
dizzystar wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in poverty as well and my reaction to money is the total opposite. I never felt connected to it all. I want to be a good saver, but my understanding of the green stuff is nearly nil. It's just sort of there and I try not to think about it. I think it's just the opposite problem. I simply don't know what to spend money on. I feel like I spend a lot of money, but somehow everyone is in deeper debt than I am.…

When I walk in a shop, I just see many things that I do not need. Other people worry that they won't get enough vacation by ocean, the latest car model, or the most fashionable clothes... I just laugh at such suggestions. I have a roof above my head, as much food as I need, a computer and a fast internet connection -- what else would I really need ? On the other hand, for a long time in my life, when I saved some mon…

Someone else could've said that having a roof over one's head, a computer and a fast internet connection are laughable suggestions - why would you care about them, when you can spend money on traveling around the world and the internet connection is usually all over the places for free?

I actually worry about not having enough vacation, because experiencing other people's cultures and mindsets are the most important things to me. What else would I really need?

To each his own. Some people care about looking good or commuting comfortably. Most people exaggerate these costs - that's another matter.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#309

Post by thomastjeffery »

qaq wrote: post #160
povertyworld wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually just skim HN for links, but I this article and had to make an account. I've been making about 15k a year about the last five years. I live in a major metropolitan area. The section I live in is finally getting hit hard and fast with gentrification, and it's terrifying. Right now I can ride a bike to work, but if I'm forced to move somewhere that I have to pay to commute, my job won't even make financial sen…

One option is considering moving. Regardless of your eng. skills if you are able to discuss requirements and communicate well you would be an asset for any smaller consulting company in eastern europe.

And to do that, they would need immediate stable income, or enough capital to live on until they found it. Probably both.

That is the whole point: no one in this situation has either of these things. That is the group of people Sen. Hatch thinks does not deserve financial help.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#310

Post by pm90 »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #301
redm wrote: post #15

I'm sure how people deal with stress and difficult situations varies from person to person. My personal story and 2-cents: When I was 17 I went through a period of near destitute. I was living on my own, my father had passed away, and I had dropped out of school. Yet, I found myself with some very good jobs, such as GE Capital, a big Oil and Gas companies IT department, etc. Regardless of the opportunity, my arroganc…

On the flip side, I have never experienced poverty, and don't have the motivation of "looking into oblivion" to push me into another dead-end job. But does that mean I deserve that experience? Should I be put in a situation where I have to fight to survive? I think that is unreasonable. There exist better motivations. I am capable of work that is much more attractive to me than entry-level labor jobs. The idea that I…

> Taxation is theft, but the current Republican party (including Sen. Hatch) has used that as an excuse to push an agenda that works against those who are barely getting by, while working for those who have inherited obscene amounts of wealth. That, in my opinion, is worse than the theft itself.

I don't understand how you can hold this view in light of what you said before that paragraph. How do you suppose we come up with creative solutions to social problems, and of helping the destitute and others, without any wealth or income? Our taxes are what fund those programs.

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