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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#471

Post by girvo »

mdp2021 wrote: post #385
mdp2021 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> power consumption It really depends on the model. I see, for example, Kaby Lake Y models with a TDP of 4.5W . Though, in general, yes, many report that Intel is not taking power consumption as a priority (which does not mean that they do not offer niche "ultra/extremely-low power" products).

Will the renegade snipers make their point explicit.

I can't explain the downvotes, but for what it's worth both Apple and AMD offer far more power for the same TDP when talking about low-wattage parts, do they not? Thats the whole benefit of TSMC's process advantage (and also why Nvidia also moved to them from Samsung this generation). In practice of course, to get the performance uplift consumers expect, AMD and Intel and Nvidia are all pushing TDPs to the limit where they can, but for products that want performance-per-watt, the TSMC-based ones are king, from what I've seen.

That said, it's all a moving target, and anyone who thinks Intel isn't producing good parts today is wrong -- they are.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#472

Post by fomine3 »

whalesalad wrote: post #248
jimbob45 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does China still want Taiwan if it's no longer technologically relevant? My understanding is that China is making similar strides in its own chip industry to the point where TSMC won't be as nearly as useful to them in 10 years as it is now.

Taiwan does far more than just TSMC. That is just one single company, albeit a very essential one. For instance, I don't like to buy hand tools (impact sockets, torque wrenches, etc) made in China, but Taiwanese tools are a higher quality and I have no hesitation purchasing them.

Many computer/electrics manufacturers and OEMs, like ASUS, Acer, Foxconn, Wistron, Pegatron, MediaTek, Synology, etc are HQ'd in Taiwan. Though PRC company may be able to supersede them, unlike TSMC.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#473

Post by fomine3 »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #361
throwaway365435 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Arizona native, occasionally my paranoia about living in a desert and simultaneously living through world wide climate change begins to really worry me. Inevitably I come to a conclusion that is very similar to yours. Arizona is pretty low on priority for water from the Colorado River and does a great job with water reclamation. That being said, I worry if I'm just believing what I want to hear

At the very least, living in a desert is better for climate change than living somewhere you need to burn fossil fuels for heating.

isn't desert colder at night?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#474

Post by arghnoname »

mr_toad wrote: post #469
arghnoname wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always feel there's some implicit racism or belief in cultural superiority or something at play in these discussions. Anyone who has gone to grad school can see pretty plainly that the top schools are stuffed with Chinese and Indian nationals. They're capable and they work hard. Some of them, not a small number, go back home. Further, western industry set up shop in Asia for their own reasons and brought their expe…

> Anyone who has gone to grad school can see pretty plainly that the top schools are stuffed with Chinese and Indian nationals. They're capable and they work hard. People in grad school tend to be hard working and smart, that’s how they got there. Hypothesis: foreign nationals have to be even smarter and harder-working to secure places in US universities, hence the stereotype.

It wasn't my experience that they were harder working or more capable than the domestic talent. Because of the immigration benefits, some had additional motivations native-born Americans didn't have, but there are easier ways to immigrate. There were some differences culturally in how certain things were approached, but I thought capability wise there was not an obvious and significant disparity in terms of capability of students by national origin.

What was noticeable is that there were a lot of these students and to the extent that the US does not retain them, we are training the workforce of our competitors. To the extent we do retain them, we are poaching the talent of our competitors. My guess is this is tough to balance and where we're at now is making total global innovation higher but lowering the proportion of the pie over which the US has dominion.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#475

Post by riversflow »

arghnoname wrote: post #406
bpanon wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis do you predict the US will destroy the factories?

I doubt the parent has access to American war plans, but it's reasonable to guess that the US would prefer for China not to have intact TSMC plants because it provides enormous leverage. It's the same as blowing up Nordstream II. This is standard war stuff, and if the US is at war with China, heavy sanctions, etc, we wouldn't be able to buy the chips anyway. Why not drop a cruise missile on it? Personally I hope such…

> e.g., only after certain guarantees of autonomy are made and the Taiwanese opt for the 'easy route'

Is that really so plausible after what happened in Hong Kong?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#476

Post by fomine3 »

ekianjo wrote: post #116
phpisthebest wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it odd that companies always want to be build things outside of their home state TSMC -> US Intel -> EU Toyota -> US Honda -> US Ford -> MX / Canada GM -> MX / Canada

> Toyota -> US you dont pay tariffs if you produce locally. not hard to understand.

US-Japan trade war was a big thing, and Japan relies on US for national security. There was no option not to manufacturing in the US.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#477

Post by mr_toad »

deltaseventhree wrote: post #273
whalesalad wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan does far more than just TSMC. That is just one single company, albeit a very essential one. For instance, I don't like to buy hand tools (impact sockets, torque wrenches, etc) made in China, but Taiwanese tools are a higher quality and I have no hesitation purchasing them.

Essential for you. But overall tsmc eclipses everything else Taiwan makes. If Taiwan stopped making those tools you would be impacted. The world overall... not so much.

> Essential for you. But overall tsmc eclipses everything else Taiwan makes.

TSMC’s revenue is less than a tenth of Taiwan’s total export revenue. They might be the most profitable of Taiwan’s companies, but Taiwan has a huge economy.

And it terms of impact on the world economy, Hon Hai precision, better known in the west as Foxconn, would like to say hi.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#478

Post by anigbrowl »

macspoofing wrote: post #259
totalZero wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple spent something like a half-trillion on share buybacks. They could have averted this crisis a decade ago by thinking strategically. They didn't. Why give them credit where little or no credit is due?

>Apple spent something like a half-trillion on share buybacks. They could have averted this crisis a decade ago by thinking strategically. I don't understand the fixation on this. Share buybacks strengthen the stock price of the company, which the company can leverage in the future to raise more capital if needed (by re-releasing new shares to the market). From that perspective, they are better than dividends. Beside…

> From that perspective, they are better than dividends

This is kinda circular when you think about it. 'Strengthening the stock price' is just artificial scarcity, and incentivizes further financialization (by incentivizing borrowing with the stock as collateral) rather than simply distributing the profit or reinvesting it.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#479

Post by astrange »

moloch-hai wrote: post #394
deburo wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean Apple should’ve built a fab instead of spending on buybacks?

They should have built out solar and wind power generation capacity to displace ongoing CO2 emissions, instead of wasting the capital on buybacks.

Buybacks are value neutral. In fact since Apple’s stock price is up, it “made money” on them.

And they did that too: https://www.apple.com/environment/

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#480

Post by credit_guy »

menshiki wrote: post #235

Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all. TSMC with its global influence has been a huge factor for guaranteeing safety of the island and peace in…

> The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan.

That's a very cynical view.

What exactly does Ukraine produce that's so important for the West?

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