Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

techmonitor.ai

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 543 posts

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#111

Post by huijzer »

formerly_proven wrote: post #84
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How leading edge will Intel's Germany fab be when it's finished? 10nm++? While TSMC will be on what, 1nm by then? Intel's PR link doesn't go into details on this.

Intel's "10nm+" (non-EUV) processors compete rather fiercely with AMD's "5nm" (EUV) processors. The latter are weirdly not 2x better, not even close, on any metric. Hm.

Anecdotal evidence, but I do know that my 12th gen Intel can burn through 10% of battery in 10 minutes. That is to say that Intel is doing really poorly in power consumption.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#112

Post by alliao »

thorin wrote: post #92

If the company is Taiwanese is there not still a concern with dependency on China and leaking of information. I realise it's important to have local manufacturing, but is this still essentially a "Chinese" company considering the disputed territory thing? Excuse my ignorance here about how such things work.

TSMC does not depend on China.. China only claims Taiwan's sovereignty but Taiwan have de facto independence. A bit like a stalker going around telling people the person they're stalking is their girlfriend...

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#113

Post by RealityVoid »

neonihil wrote: post #70
AdamN wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a valid long term concern for Taiwan but 10+ years out.

I'm afraid there could be a hidden math behind this. As in: cost of a war with China vs. economic cost of China acquiring TSMC tech. As long as a war is cheaper, the US is protecting Taiwan. I'm no expert, but it usually comes down to something like this.

I believe China would probably aquire a pile of rubble.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#114

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

vineyardmike wrote: post #52
midasz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Is the USA going to sell their chips to China? Because when Taiwan gets invaded the Fabs will be destroyed and/or made inoperable with no way to get them functional again.

China is already working on their own chips. It’s only a matter of time before it’s good enough .

Good enough for what? The free world isn't standing still so China will always be several generations behind. The market wants the latest and greatest.

It's only if the free world can't compete will China catch up, in which case it will get what it deserves.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#115

Post by ajross »

thorin wrote: post #92

If the company is Taiwanese is there not still a concern with dependency on China and leaking of information. I realise it's important to have local manufacturing, but is this still essentially a "Chinese" company considering the disputed territory thing? Excuse my ignorance here about how such things work.

Taiwan is "Chinese" ethnically, being populated[1] by descendants of many waves of Han colonization over the last few centuries.

Concern over "China" has nothing to do with ethnicity, it's a geopolitical fight with the government of the People's Republic of China, which does not[2] rule Taiwan.

[1] To be clear: there are also descendants of indigenous "Taiwanese" living there, who are austronesian and not Han. Ethnicity is complicated and everywhere is a melting pot.

[2] In practice. Obviously "legally" both Taiwan and the PRC consider themselves the true government of the other's territory.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#116

Post by ekianjo »

phpisthebest wrote: post #87
Aromasin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already being planned by Intel. They're building a new leading edge fab in Magdeburg, Germany [1]. This is backed by the new European Chips Act [2]. Wheels have started turning very quickly with regards to home-grown semiconductors in 2022. [1] https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/newsroom/news/eu-n... [2] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_...

I always find it odd that companies always want to be build things outside of their home state TSMC -> US Intel -> EU Toyota -> US Honda -> US Ford -> MX / Canada GM -> MX / Canada

> Toyota -> US

you dont pay tariffs if you produce locally. not hard to understand.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#117

Post by eastbound »

squarefoot wrote: post #24

Hopefully we'll do something like that here in the EU too. We're experiencing the hard way how's like depending on the energy and resources of warmongering criminal dictators; it would be wise to start moving away from technological dependence on China asap.

> Hopefully we'll do something like that here in the EU too.

Sure! France is betting everything with investing for an Intel factory here, the non-fashionable manufacturer that is getting excluded of the market because their chip designs are outdated. If my tax revenue can be used to maintain old actors afloat and create jobs to teach the French how to do things that don’t perform, I’m more than happy.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#118

Post by troad »

vetinari wrote: post #88
mk89 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Said warmongering dictators do not need dollars or euros to wage any war. And how do they pay for “things”?

In roubles, for example. Its not like those who are paid in roubles would have any use for any other currency. Everything they need can be paid for in roubles, turtles all the way down. Sure, you won't get iphone, porsche or gucci wares for that, but those are not necessary to wage the war.

> Sure, you won't get iphone, porsche or gucci wares for that

This is where your argument breaks down. Russia imports vast amounts of manufactured goods that it doesn't have the capacity to make itself, including basic military and basic consumer goods, and for which it needs something that their trade partners might conceivably want. Which ain't roubles, for the most part.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#119

Post by BirAdam »

xiphias2 wrote: post #37
Aromasin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already being planned by Intel. They're building a new leading edge fab in Magdeburg, Germany [1]. This is backed by the new European Chips Act [2]. Wheels have started turning very quickly with regards to home-grown semiconductors in 2022. [1] https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/newsroom/news/eu-n... [2] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_...

If Intel is not good enough for US, why would it be good for EU? It's clear that EU did what US wanted instead of what would be in its interest.

Intel is still holds the market on laptops and desktops at about 3/4. They simply push more volume. TSMC makes desktop chips for Apple, but Apple isn’t the majority. The rest of TSMC’s production is almost exclusively GPUs and phones, and this could change. If Intel executes well on their next nodes, and should TSMC slip at all, Intel could pull ahead. Never count Intel out. People thought Intel would die after the z80 ate their lunch, after the Athlon 64 ate their lunch, and now they say it again… I think it’s all just noise.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#120

Post by rapsey »

neonihil wrote: post #58

Poor Taiwanese people... their security insurance has just been cancelled. I wonder how many days after the first successful batches of chips coming out of the Arizona fab will China invade Taiwan. I do hope not, but realistically: with high-end chips being made on US soil, the US will have very little interest in protecting Taiwan, apart from maybe blocking China from also acquiring the tech.

One plant does not change the game that much. You still need TSMC to keep working on whatever the next tech will be as well as all their current production in Taiwan which is fully booked.
Post reply on HN