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Hang on to Your Firefox

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Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#451

Post by happytoexplain »

zamadatix wrote: post #402
sumanep wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OP didn´t mean the "real" web standars (W3C) but what Google rules that is the actual standars in practice. Edge had to move from his own rendering engine to blink (crhomium) because of that. So "even" Microsoft could not fight that trend. Sorry for my english.

Your English seemed perfectly clear to me, for what it's worth. We just have a tendency to read things in a negative tone for some reason - one of those human bugs :).

I don't think this is helpful if somebody is trying to learn English subtleties. Responding to a person's thought with "You don't understand", and that's it, implies hostility/rudeness.

People tend to read certain things with a negative tone because people tend to write certain things with a negative tone. That kind of pattern recognition is fundamental to language, not a regrettable quirk. Otherwise "You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about" would be equivalent to "I think you might have misunderstood".

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#452

Post by account42 »

autoexec wrote: post #275
nosioptar wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still seamonkey, lynx, and I think emacs has a browser built in somewhere. Konqueror could be an option.

Eventually we'll have ladybird too

I expect we'll se at least five more language switches before that happens.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#453

Post by greatgib »

GuB-42 wrote: post #160
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

I will go further and say that people hate on Firefox because they care. We don't see many people here hating on Edge for instance, they may hate the fact that it always wants to force itself in, but not the browser itself. And that's simply because they don't use it, they don't even bother trying, they don't know what to hate about it and they don't care. Occasionally, some people say it is actually good, they get i…

Nothing worse then silence quitting. Your disappointed users quit in silence because of their insatisfaction but they don't care enough or anymore enough to even telling you that they are quitting or why.

In that case you can be satisfied of yourself while your user base and promoters is plummeting.

It is a great thing that you still have a large user base that will still complain of issues they have so you can improve or ever on that if it is your wish.

And nothing as strong in the end that the fidelity of an user that was complaining about an issue and now feel that his voice was heard!

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#454

Post by account42 »

0dayz wrote: post #425
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

It's one thing to criticize clearly malicious or incompetent actions Mozilla makes, the majority of the complaints are when Firefox release a new version and people on HN bring up their personal pet peeves every single time instead of anything positive about said release or news. I'm very sick in general of "the criticism will continue until moral improve" attitude that has become more and more common.

And we are very sick of the enshittification will continue no matter what attitude from Mozilla. Sorry not sorry that you feel bad about people keep telling Mozilla off for the things where they keep being bad actors. Criticism will continue until there is no more reason for it. This frog will not be boiled.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#455

Post by account42 »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #174
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

Normally I'd agree but at this point it's basically "Firefox is mismanaged, updoots to the left my 1337zors" behavior. It's basically a meme. It's always at the top of every single firefox thread no matter what is being posted. Yes they make mistakes. Yes they can be frustrating. But it is still so much better than using a chromium browser, and that must be acknowledged. People whine about the features every time. Gu…

It's always there because it remains unaddressed. You may be used to people just folding then corporations move forward with enshittification but that's not going to happen with all enthusiasts, which is the only kind of user FF has left.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#456

Post by account42 »

HackerThemAll wrote: post #440
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

You'd want this browser for free, wouldn't you? Have you donated to Mozilla Foundation? So you're bitching because the free product that you don't support finds ways to sustain economically the hordes of developers that are trying to improve it for you. And no, Chrome never "bought an ad-tech company, collected data on users, and used chrome to push personalized ads, or the addition of anti-features and questionable…

Donating to the Mozilla Foundation does NOT pay for Firefox development.

Mozilla Corporation does not get to do whatever they want to get funds for something that should be a project run for the public benefit.

Google/Chrome being worse is irrelevant to criticism of Mozilla/Firefox.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#457

Post by account42 »

phyzix5761 wrote: post #349
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

How does Mozilla fund Firefox right now? I'm genuinely curious for a free product, how can they generate revenue without doing shady ad and data collection stuff?

How does Doctors Without Borders generate revenue?? How does the EFF??? How is the FSF able to fund GCC development?????

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#458

Post by account42 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #226
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

>It isn't bots complaining about Firefox here, it's power users who are frustrated by what Firefox is turning into The problem isn't that they're frustrated it's that they don't have the theory of mind to distinguish between what they care about and what the average user cares about. They don't just complain for themselves, they think this is the causal explanation for Firefox declining market share. Which it isn't b…

> Power users is the only thing Firefox doesn't lack.

Which is exactly why the first thing Mozilla needs to to is to stop driving them away. They are never going to win the popularity contest for the average user without the word of mouth from enthusiasts.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#459

Post by cxr »

AnonC wrote: post #371
cpburns2009 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla's not exactly short on funds. They take in at least $500,000,000 every year.

AFAIK, from reading the annual reports years ago, this nice sum of money belongs to Mozilla Foundation, the non-profit that works on making a better web. Mozilla Corporation, the for-profit entity that makes Firefox, doesn’t seem to have as much as it needs. Hence MDN Plus, Mozilla VPN, and other services.

This is a gross misunderstanding of the situation surrounding Mozilla revenue and Firefox development expenses.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#460

Post by account42 »

linuxhansl wrote: post #229
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

> when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company What would you have them do? Somehow they have to make some money somehow. Alternatively they have to live purely from donations, which means that people like you and I have to part with of our money. Or they could be purely open source, in which case people like and I donate our time.

I would have them fully shed the silicon valley tech corporation mindset and instead act like a charity working for the benefit of the public, as is appropriate for a non-profit foundation. Funding should mean seeking donations and government grants, not trying to fleece users, sell their privacy/attention and/or resell mediocre services - which are not serving the mission of building the best browser possible.
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