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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#451

Post by rootusrootus »

evancoop wrote: post #85

The most common response is likely along the lines of "we don't need our dishwashers connected to the internet, this is unnecessary, another failure mode, another invasion, etc." The more interesting question is who, in the bowels of the manufacturer's corporate headquarters, determined that this feature added value, how was it priced, and what, if anything was done after the fact to assess whether the additional cos…

Someone on the twitter thread blamed it on the nerds. It is not the nerds that come up with this crap. It's the MBA types (and marketing folks, MBA or not) that dream up this kind of nonsense.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#452

Post by EricE »

josho wrote: post #310
fullstop wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt that, and I've considered replacing it. The lifespan of a "modern" dishwasher is about 10 years, a far cry from the 30 years that mine has run. In the time that I've had mine, I would have had to replace a modern one about three times. I think that new ones would be more water efficient, but I do not see new ones being more efficient electrically. Mine is plumbed to hot water, so the heating elements ar…

To your point any efficiency gained by a newer model is lost by the increased replacement cost and energy to produce a new unit every 7-10 years.

7-10 is pretty optimistic for most new stuff. Which is why I prioritize brands like Whirlpool that are repair friendly. Service manuals are readily available (often included inside the appliance!) and parts are readily available and cheap too. Brands like Bosch and Meile? Good luck - at least here in the US parts are a nightmare.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#453

Post by Vrondi »

quacked wrote: post #55
krm01 wrote: post #40

Smart devices are overly complex. The entire point should have been to make devices work for you, but now when you buy a ‘smart’ washing machine, it requires you 30min of setup. Downloading apps, connecting it to wifi, providing GPS location etc. why? What’s the point. We need devices that make life simpler. Straight out of the box.

Are there any regulation barriers to selling "dumb" devices in the modern market? I've made the same point about pickup trucks--the 2002 Toyota Tacoma is a far preferable vehicle than the 2022 Toyota Tacoma for many truck owners, but when I've brought that up, people have pointed out that a number of laws make it impossible to sell a clone of the old version (must have backup cameras, must have X, must have Y, etc.)

It is relatively easy to add a new stereo that has a screen which can display a backup camera to an old truck. It doesn't need to have been original factory equipment to be adequate. I did this for a 2003 vehicle. I have backup camera/Android Auto/CarPlay/etc. If you don't feel up to it, you can have it done for less than a grand at a really good car audio installer, and then you have the more reliable vehicle. Of course, this depends where you live and what is required.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#454

Post by EricE »

strangattractor wrote: post #357
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

My LG TV would not let we watch until I updated my Terms of Service. The only option was to agree or not be able to use the TV I had already purchased and paid for.

Never connect it to the Internet. Just use a Roku instead of the horrible built in apps.

Honestly I'm amazed that so many people actually connect their "smart" TVs to the Internet. No way in hell!

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#455

Post by mojzu »

prox wrote: post #365
ho_schi wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LESSON: KISS Do never connect things to any network - and especially the internet - if it is not required for operation. What worries are people which blindly request "more digitalization". We need resilience, not digitalization! Once a unnamed person complained about the fact the the Boeing 747-400 still gets flight data updates with a floppy. They argued it should use WiFi and central updates from a server and so o…

Yeah but it’s so cool ? /s Seriously I don’t understand the need at all to have your kitchen be connected to wifi at all. Not everything needs to be quantified, unless you use measuring cups for cooking. Second I can’t trust manufacturers to rush something out the door to “fix it in post”

Consumers obviously see enough value in remote control for it to be added as a feature, I'm not sure putting the cat in the bag is a great solution at this point

That said while I do disagree with the above consumers, I don't care about remote control but I would quite like remote status updates from various appliances (is the door locked, is the washing cycle finished, has the fridge been left open, etc.)

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#456

Post by 8ytecoder »

amelius wrote: post #398
jancsika wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be fair, it could also get functionality updates This is an important point that owners[1] sometimes miss. For example, if the owner makes a deal to partner with the maker of a particular detergent tab, the owner could create a new feature that only works with those tabs and not regular powder detergent. 1: Owner: the person who owns the firmware being sent over WiFi.

This is why you should never allow a printer to directly connect to the internet.

Never is a strong word. If corporations can take advantage of you, so you can you of them. I’m yet to pay a single dollar for ink. The free 10 pages a month plan with HP allows me to use it to print the occasional recipes and labels in full color for free. I knew I’m not going to print too much stuff and I can swap it out for my own ink if my need changes. I keep the printer plugged out except when I need to print and it works out well for me so far. (This was why HP was trying to phase out the plan).

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#457

Post by feoren »

feoren wrote: post #439
fsflover wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why Stallman invented free software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor... .

Problem: People are writing bad software with bugs and dark patterns. Solution: Software development should be the only creative profession in the entire world with no legal protection on their work!? It's insane to me. Absolutely insane. Copyright is not immoral. Almost nobody in this thread would be able to make any money as a software engineer if software were not allowed to make money. And yes, I've heard the arg…

(Max-depth, reply to Vrodni in sister comment)

> if something is abandoned by a company, then it should be made open

Totally agree! Once you start selling a product, you should be required to make provisions for your company not existing anymore. Source-code trusts that have the authority to make code public domain or provide it to stakeholders in certain situations, when it can be shown the current IP-holder is not meeting their obligations, would be a great idea. This does not interfere with the interests of active, good-faith copyright holders, except perhaps by charging them a small fee to the trust.

>User repair-ability/unlocking/jail-breaking of devices should be legally protected.

Totally agree! That is what "right to repair" is referring to.

There are ways to solve these problems, and banning copyright on software isn't really even one of them.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#458

Post by EricE »

bambax wrote: post #147
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

> but now you know to do it later Nobody wants to update the firmware of their dishwasher! (or anything, really) I'm sure one can think of "benefits" to this, but as this incident shows, the annoyance far, far outweighs any possible benefit. This is really getting out of hand. "Right to repair" should include "right to dumb down".

>"This is really getting out of hand. "Right to repair" should include "right to dumb down"."

Yes! Especially with cars - Toyota backed down but they are full of crap; they fully intended to do it until people objected: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLlzAv2GTdc

I love how the only people that were going to be exempted were peoples who's cars cellular modems already didn't work. How convenient.

I hope I can be buried in the cars I currently own. And if I have to buy a new one if it won't work with the cellular modem being pulled out I ain't buying it.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#459

Post by cogman10 »

_fat_santa wrote: post #237
erwincoumans wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Tesla Model 3 owner with firmware v11? :)

Gotta take inspiration from the best in UX /s

All input is error (so we make it impossible to give correct input).

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#460

Post by tokamak-teapot »

Scea91 wrote: post #339
sshagent wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this the truth. Over Christmas family was around and someone loaded the dishwater and put it on economical or whatever the 'easy wash' mode was called, i chuckled knowing they might as well waved the dirty dishes in the sky for an equilavent wash. Its like, why are the other options even there...Intensive wash, every time.

Does not match my experience. I have a fairly regular Bosch dishwasher and use the ECO mode almost exclusively without any issues.

Same experience here. This can’t be right though. Surely we are the exceptions and there really are idiotic committees forcing manufacturers to include eco settings that don’t work - rather than the other explanation of some dishwashers being crap?
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