My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi • Hacker News Board

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#261

Post by chaostheory » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #117

herbstein wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the GGP said, the menu can be exited without updating by scrolling down. The interface isn't intuitive, but it's not a hard block.

Agree, but I think there are a number of us that don't want a menu that needs exiting on our dishwasher.

Then don't purchase a smart dishwasher. I won't be purchasing one either, nor will I purchase a smart microwave or a host of other smart appliances. The person who made the tweet, made the exact opposite decision AND connected their appliance to the internet.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#262

Post by dpark » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

stragies wrote: post #230

micromacrofoot wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh... this is more like "people don't want software on their Dishwasher" rather than "people want free software on their dishwasher"

Maybe we are different, but I enjoy comforts like "Schedule run for lower cost nighttime running", "Alert me, when the Finishing liquid is starting to run low, so that HomeAssitant can add it to my shopping list", "Automatically measure some values of my (drinking) water supply, and tell HomeAssistant about them". "Set a status in HomeAssistant, when a run has finished"...

Normal dishwashers solve for this with a button or knob labeled “delay”. Breaking out an app to set the dishwasher to start late songs much less convenient. Occasionally I wish I had more granularity on the delay but never have I wanted an app to do it.

I don’t know what I’d do with any of that other stuff. Does your dishwasher actually try to measure water quality? Because that seems like a really poor fit. I wouldn’t trust water quality measurements coming out of my dishwasher anyway. It’s measuring hot water which isn’t what you should be drinking, and I’d give it a 99% chance that the person who crammed those sensors in didn’t do a good job of insulating them from the heat, vibration, etc.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#263

Post by bentcorner » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #192

buro9 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

Every dishwasher I've ever used, your best bet is to put everything on full blast, least efficient settings. Otherwise the dishes get "almost" clean. I always imagine the engineers standing around patting themselves on the back after testing, and marveling how their ideas worked so well most of the dishes got clean. The dishes all need to be totally clean, every time, or it's useless to me.

Don't use detergent pods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#264

Post by cproctor » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

I think in the end it's not abut utility--adding "smart" lets you dramatically bump the price. Look at smoke detectors (as an example I was thinking about this morning): the best-rated (Consumer Reports) wired smoke detector costs $31. Ten-year sealed battery models cost less. But the smart smoke detectors start at $130.

These cost another $2 in hardware and some dev (and probably certification) costs to recoup, but they also open the opportunity for subscriptions and who-knows-what-kind-of in-app purchases which can be sold to anxious-complacent-frazzled consumers with extra disposable income.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#265

Post by fsflover » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #255

fsflover wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/5e8f6e0d3a029...

link doesn't work.

Strange, it works for me. Try this: https://tineye.com/search/08716c4a36c5f0161b992e76aa689d8f10....

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#266

Post by brk » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #79

michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

Tesla is making dishwashers now?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#267

Post by jancsika » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #79

michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

> To be fair, it could also get functionality updates

This is an important point that owners[1] sometimes miss.

For example, if the owner makes a deal to partner with the maker of a particular detergent tab, the owner could create a new feature that only works with those tabs and not regular powder detergent.

1: Owner: the person who owns the firmware being sent over WiFi.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#268

Post by lupire » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #219

micromacrofoot wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because it assumes you can hear it.

If you're too far away to be able to hear it, then what would you do with the information anyway?

walk downstairs.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#269

Post by duxup » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 3:20 PM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #219

micromacrofoot wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because it assumes you can hear it.

If you're too far away to be able to hear it, then what would you do with the information anyway?

Kids, life, family, noise happens, it is pretty easy to have it go off and not hear it, but still want to get to it when it is done.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#270

Post by danShumway » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 3:20 PM UTC

buro9 wrote: post #77

michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

Maybe a silly question, but does Miele require a specific kind of cleaning powder or packet, or does it have an option to tell it what kind of cleaning powder you're using?

My dishwasher you just dump any boxed powder in and I can use any brand I want. I'm assuming that for a machine this expensive and geared at long-term usage Miele would have the same capabilities, and it's not like a Keurig thing where the user is forced to use individual pods.

But if that's the case then I'm not sure how this would work unless the user enters a config setting or something for what soap they're commonly using. Water hardness the washer could measure itself, I guess.

Edit: another commenter below (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30147979) links to the manual (https://www.mieleusa.com/pmedia/ZGA/TX2070/10546880-000-01_1...), which answers most of these questions.