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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#431

Post by simplyaccont »

usrbinbash wrote: post #210
buro9 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

> Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Or it is treated by the same algorithm like all the other cleaning powders, which is: "mix with water then spray through nozzles". Strangly enough, this has worked great for decades without firmware updates. For the longest time it even worked without firmware.

mile dishwasher has detergent disk with 400g of powder. amount of powder to be dispensed per cycle is configurable.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#432

Post by thefourthchime »

quacked wrote: post #55
krm01 wrote: post #40

Smart devices are overly complex. The entire point should have been to make devices work for you, but now when you buy a ‘smart’ washing machine, it requires you 30min of setup. Downloading apps, connecting it to wifi, providing GPS location etc. why? What’s the point. We need devices that make life simpler. Straight out of the box.

Are there any regulation barriers to selling "dumb" devices in the modern market? I've made the same point about pickup trucks--the 2002 Toyota Tacoma is a far preferable vehicle than the 2022 Toyota Tacoma for many truck owners, but when I've brought that up, people have pointed out that a number of laws make it impossible to sell a clone of the old version (must have backup cameras, must have X, must have Y, etc.)

Outside of extremely low quality no name televisions. I don't think it's possible to buy a dumb TV anymore. TV manufacturers I found a revenue streams by including Roku or Android TV bundle in.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#433

Post by rootusrootus »

avs733 wrote: post #28
christophilus wrote: post #7

I can understand the appeal of most smart devices, but since a dishwasher can’t yet load and unload itself, what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? You have to have physically loaded it. Why not just push the start button then?

We have one it’s great. The ability to start it, and confirm it’s started is a game changer. Especially because it’s preloaded with the chemicals. We don’t want to start it until we’re sure all the floating dishes actually got loaded. There’s a stray dish, a glass, life’s just a little chaotic getting dinner cleaned up and everyone to bed. We forget or we hit start but someone else opens it to add something. Without…

Definitely user-specific though. I have a wife and two kids, and we just use the dishwasher differently. It never sits with dirty dishes, it always gets loaded up started right now. If you open it to find dishes inside, they are clean. The only benefit I'd get from wifi is a notification that it's done cleaning. Not to say your use case isn't valid, because YMMV. But plenty of people other than single guys find wifi on a dishwasher useless ;-)

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#434

Post by Freak_NL »

twobitshifter wrote: post #362
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

If your dishwasher Shopping don’t get caught up in the Miele brand. Wire cutter put them below almost all other brands including whirlpool Maytag and GE in terms of cleaning. Of course they still do have a good reputation for reliability. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/the-best-dishwash... >Miele’s cleaning performance is strong, but not quite the best we’ve found. We tested two different Classic Plus uni…

Miele also started limiting the availability of parts to official Miele certified repair centres only¹, so repairability is limited too — i.e., you would have to go to an approved service company rather than do it yourself or have a local handy person do it.

1: This was reported in the news in the Netherlands, they may not be introducing this everywhere at once, but it is a worrying trend.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#435

Post by simplyaccont »

danShumway wrote: post #270
buro9 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

Maybe a silly question, but does Miele require a specific kind of cleaning powder or packet, or does it have an option to tell it what kind of cleaning powder you're using? My dishwasher you just dump any boxed powder in and I can use any brand I want. I'm assuming that for a machine this expensive and geared at long-term usage Miele would have the same capabilities, and it's not like a Keurig thing where the user is…

it's manual for older miele. in new one you can either use standard detergent (pod, liquid, powder) or you can insert special 400g disc of powder and it was be auto-dispensed

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#436

Post by Vrondi »

Hilarious! I cannot comprehend why anyone would buy a dishwasher with wifi. Ever. A dishwasher worth having should last at least 10 years. By the end of that time, the wifi security spec it is compatible with is likely to be a huge security hole in your home network, as you will be 1-2 wifi specs newer in most cases due to router replacements. Sheer stupidity.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#437

Post by rootusrootus »

duxup wrote: post #146
christophilus wrote: post #7

I can understand the appeal of most smart devices, but since a dishwasher can’t yet load and unload itself, what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? You have to have physically loaded it. Why not just push the start button then?

My clothes washer will alert me when it is done. It is handy if you have a lot of laundry to do (kids) and you want to be on top of doing one load after another / not forget.

That's a feature I'd kinda like, but I won't rope myself into the manufacturer's ecosystem just to get it. Especially not Samsung, the maker of my current washing machine. Not that I'll ever buy another Samsung appliance, but that's a different story.

What I did instead was paste an Aqara zigbee vibration sensor to the side of the washing machine. Then a little bit of Home Assistant magic and it tells me when the washer seems to be done. In case I didn't hear the symphony it plays at the end of a cycle.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#438

Post by tfigment »

adolph wrote: post #370
pmontra wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

> functionality updates The only UI a dishwasher needs is "wash" and "dishes in here are still clean don't put in dirty dishes yet." I've yet to see a dishwasher do the latter with the necessary nuance.

My dishwasher has a manual lever for locking during wash. I guess I know if its locked and not running and filled they are clean and can be put away.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#439

Post by feoren »

fsflover wrote: post #143
mrweasel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad got a smart heater, for my parents holiday home. The idea is that he can check temperature, and prevent frost damage from home. Yesterday he ask: "What happens it the company that makes the App decides that they don't what to do that anymore, or they go out of business?". Well, then the smart thingy stops being smart.

This is exactly why Stallman invented free software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor... .

Problem: People are writing bad software with bugs and dark patterns.

Solution: Software development should be the only creative profession in the entire world with no legal protection on their work!?

It's insane to me. Absolutely insane. Copyright is not immoral. Almost nobody in this thread would be able to make any money as a software engineer if software were not allowed to make money. And yes, I've heard the arguments for how free software could kinda maybe carve out a niche of funding and keep a few passionate people employed for not quite enough money. Spare me. It's like every aerospace engineer deciding that what they're doing is immoral and they should all just be aircraft maintenance techs. It's a completely different, much less creative, and much less satisfying job (for the engineering-minded, anyway).

Of course patents are a different story, and basically are immoral under the current system. And there are clear "right to repair" and ownership rights that we also need to fight for. Can we focus on those fights instead of shaming software developers for wanting to make money on the code they write?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#440

Post by Vrondi »

me_me_mu_mu wrote: post #391

Is it weird that the more tech becomes like this the more I feel checked out? I don’t want smart devices, nor do I want to be online 24/7. However it’s hard to escape this reality. My thermostat (in apartment) recently reset due to a power issue and I had to have maintenance over to do its configuration again. They had to come twice because after setting it up they have to figure out how to connect it to Wi-Fi for a…

No, it isn't weird. Some things should be simple, just work, and not require wifi.
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