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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#451

Post by jpttsn »

maest wrote: post #380
jpttsn wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s obviously intentional. I’ve never heard about Hey. Then today, first they post something else and now someone defrosts this tired whine about Apple monetizing, and Hey (whatever it is) tops the list. Sigh. Good work marketers, people seem to buy it.

So just because the publicity benefits Hey, the point about Apple's unequal treatment of devs on their platform is invalidated? Also, I'm not sure how Hey orchestrated this - do they have someone on the inside who they had reject their app?

No, though it’s invalidated for other reasons, the enumeration of which would here seem only to cause a resounding whoosh passing overhead.

It’s child’s play to orchestrate this. It amounts to getting thrown out of a bar for not wearing pants, and then putting up ishouldbeabletovisitbarswithoutpants.com. Not something that requires a man on the inside.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#453

Post by Wowfunhappy »

efreak wrote: post #442
twicetwice wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't think paying 30% to Apple is the same as paying 30% to Steam. The former is mandatory, the latter is not. If you don't want to be on Steam, you can put your game in the Windows store/etc, or sell directly from your website. If you don't want to be on Apple's app store, well, too bad, it's the only way to reach 50+% of your potential customers (in the US).

I know quite a few people on Steam who simply refuse to but any games on any platforms other than Steam. Steam isn't an exclusive choice, but there's a nontrivial number of gamers who are loyal to Steam to the point of refusing to purchase anything that isn't available on Steam. I personally have platforms I simply will not use (or refuse to spend money on directly, like EA's Origin, where I only own/care about C&C)…

But, see, this is where I draw the line.

Valve has the ability to set whatever rules they want within their store. A world where we didn't allow this would get very complicated very quickly. Do we also make Walmart and Target carry every brand? How much are they allowed to markup the price? Who decides?

If Steam provides such a valuable service that consumers aren't willing to shop anywhere else even when they can, then that's what it is.

And, I think that's what would largely happen on the iPhone anyway if side-loading was allowed, outside of extraordinary circumstances like when protesters can't access a critical safety app. But, in order to keep apps on their store, Apple would have to make a (slightly) greater effort to keep developers happy.

(I also think Steam zealots are ridiculous, but that is a separate discussion.)

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#454

Post by kllrnohj »

echelon wrote: post #349
baddox wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree with that explanation of the gaming console exception. Modern consoles are actually quite similar to smartphones in the breadth of their functionality. To be consistent I think you’d need to include consoles, most smart TVs and media streamers, and even tech-heavy cars.

Gaming consoles aren't general purpose computers. You're not going to do banking, email your boss, find a lover, or order groceries from them. They're unnecessary leisure commodities. There are also three major consoles, PC, Steam, and a ton of other ways to distribute games. It's a highly competitive landscape. If you want a phone, you've got only two options. DOJ, burn the Apple and Google monopolies to the ground.

> If you want a phone, you've got only two options.

That's not true at all. There's 2 primary OS choices, but on the Android side there's dozens of manufacturers, all with their take on things. Android is not a single option, it's hundreds. You even have choice of app stores. There's even options that have zero Google at all - like the Huawei P40 Pro. Or for an older take, silent cirlce's Blackphone or Amazon's Fire Phone. And even if you are in the very small minority that actually buys a Google phone, they even provide instructions on how to unlock the bootloader & flash a different OS: https://source.android.com/setup/build/running#unlocking-rec...

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#455

Post by [deleted] »

echelon wrote: post #449
baddox wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think gaming consoles are general purpose computers. You listed a few things that probably aren't done very often on consoles (although you likely can do them, since consoles have web browsers). But it's also easy to list things that are much better-suited to be done on a gaming console than a smartphone.

> I think gaming consoles are general purpose computers. This is a contrived point of view, and I'm sure the product managers at Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Apple, and Google would all strongly disagree. Remember when the PS3 used to be used for super computing? Sony quietly ended that program when they realized that wasn't the business they wanted to be in.

[deleted]

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#456

Post by kethinov »

1123581321 wrote: post #352
zaroth wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that if anything Hey was hoping that Apple would reject their app specifically so they could become a cause célèbre, and ride the streisand effect, They've done a great job organizing their protest campaign. I would be extremely surprised if it wasn't planned from the beginning. They are ultimately depending on Apple caving under pressure.

This seems unlikely. They are at real risk of having their 1.0 app pulled, and even if it remains it has real bugs. Additionally, until this week I don’t think any iOS developer would have predicted this rules clarification/enforcement. That said, they were clearly ready to loudly react to whatever trouble did emerge.

To play devil's advocate, maybe DHH hoped it would get rejected so he could launch his protest campaign, then when Apple approved the app only to turn around and reject an update, he was given an even more exploitable situation than the one he had hoped for.

Who knows? All I know is if the end result is that Apple is held accountable by regulators and is forced to stop engaging in capricious anticompetitive behavior, then whether DHH is a master astroturfer or not doesn't matter much to me. The end result will have been good for us all.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#457

Post by nodamage »

twicetwice wrote: post #437
screwycaboose wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not a monopoly. Apple is roughly half of the marketshare in the US, and dramatically lower than that worldwide. They're also not saying that Hey can't be in their store, or even needs to pay them anything. Hey could offer a free tier and wouldn't owe Apple a dime. Basecamp already does this so they know it very well.

They certainly have a monopoly on "distributing software to iPhones." I don't get why no one makes this point. One could argue it's a monopoly they've earned. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But certainly there is a market for iPhone app distribution, and Apple has a monopoly in that market.

Because at that point you've redefined the word "monopoly" to the point where it becomes tautological.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#458

Post by fredophile »

baddox wrote: post #205
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs. Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware. The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store…

I don’t agree with that explanation of the gaming console exception. Modern consoles are actually quite similar to smartphones in the breadth of their functionality. To be consistent I think you’d need to include consoles, most smart TVs and media streamers, and even tech-heavy cars.

Consoles are very different from phones. Consoles sell at a loss and make the money back in sales. The 30% cut to the console makers goes towards paying for the lower price of hardware. Google and Apple do not sell phones below cost.

The certification process for consoles is also a lot tougher and more expensive.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#460

Post by landric »

quitethelogic wrote: post #446
bredren wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The press loves app developer David vs Goliath Apple stories. Our now-shuttered startup Gliph brought in-app Bitcoin transfers to the App Store for the first time in 2013. Apple allowed the behavior for seven months before I got a call telling me it had to be removed. Bitcoin was hot enough that our blog post generated a fair amount of press for our little startup. [1] and I also published the company's appeal public…

> Hey's little mini site There's a github link at the bottom. Doesn't look to me like there is any affiliation with Basecamp. Edit: Your point still stands, however. DHH made it pretty clear when we said they'd burn it all down. (Don't remember the exact quote)

[site OP]

No affiliation with Basecamp.

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