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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#371

Post by dan-robertson »

donarb wrote: post #245
judofyr wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was excited about hey before, and even though I don’t agree and don’t like the way the App Store works, I find Hey and the superstars behind it so hypocritical and annoying now. I don't understand this sentiment. You don't like the way the App Store works and a company comes along and is willing to fight against Apple for it, and then you start disliking them? Why are they hypocritical? They are pointing out flaw…

The client doesn't use SMTP, you send your email to their server, probably using a json payload. They then send it for you over SMTP. Since the client doesn't use SMTP or POP/IMAP, you can't use Hey with a traditional email program, you must use their client.

I think that’s the whole point though. SMTP/POP/IMAP are pretty bad protocols, especially for mobile. Also they imply that the email client/server have to work in certain ways but hey! Want it to work in different ways

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#372

Post by jfoster »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #276
jessaustin wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't clear that Hey couldn't just be a PWA like many other email services?

Do you have any statistics breaking down how frequently mobile users access email via a PWA versus a dedicated app? Also surveys on the difference in user experience? If not, please refrain from disingenuously advancing obviously problematic ideas. It adds nothing to the conversation.

It's not as though a statistic about how frequently mobile users access mail via a website is a measurement of some universal value. If that's the only way for iOS users to use Hey, then would find some users who are willing to do that.

What's wrong with this being put forward? I would go so far to say that this is one of the four main things that happen when an app is rejected from an app store.

1. Change the app.

2. Don't support the platform.

3. Sideload.

4. Direct users from that platform to the web version.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#373

Post by efrafa »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #52

I think there needs to be some distinction between apps that are the main product (or close to it) and apps that support another product (like there is npo point to having the app by itself, you should already have gotten the product/account before downloading the app). I don't know too much about Apple's rules to know if they use that criteria, but it makes sense to me. An app to manage your Tesla makes no sense unl…

Maybe some world where those apps would be hidden from search, lists etc.. and you could only install it if you have link to it.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#374

Post by t0astbread »

sukilot wrote: post #231
hendzen wrote: post #37

Apple takes a 30% cut of all IAP. Google scrapes info and displays it in widgets above links to the actual content. Google charges trademark holders AdWords ransom to protect searches for their own brands. Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost. Amazon picks off the best performing market place categories with Amazon Basics ‘recommended’ competitors. The list go…

"Amazon accepts gifts freely given to it" is a weird accusation. OSS authors could distribute on a non-commercial CC license.

Let's assume the idea of Open Source is a network of small to medium-sized businesses and individual contributors helping each other out in a mutually beneficial way. A multi-billion dollar corp stepping in by undercutting those businesses' prices and taking without giving back anything of equal value is arguably against the spirit of the idea and a breach of trust. It's technically okay because it is just "accepting a gift" but I'd still say it's exploitation.

Distributing under a NC-license would also go against that idea. (Apart from tipping the perception of "Open Source" towards something more restrictive which is always a bit bitter.)

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#375

Post by alerighi »

MattGaiser wrote: post #53

One of the problems is that as a consumer, I like the features Apple implements with this. I can just use Apple Pay instead of handing over my credit card. Don't want a subscription? No complicated process. No need to call a number. No need to email anyone. I just click to cancel and I am done. As lousy as this is, the consumer experience is dramatically improved.

Except that the developer gets 30% less money. I mean come on, it's effectively a commission on the transaction, and I think that such an high commission on the transaction would be illegal in most countries. But Apple is not a bank and can probably get around this (but isn't effecitvely acting like a bank in this situation? I wish that the EU investigates this behaviour)

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#376

Post by TulliusCicero »

sukilot wrote: post #268
detaro wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you price your subscriptions purely by the marginal expense of serving the content/service to another customer? Or do you price them according to what the market will pay for your product?

Totally different. The goal here is to maximize my profit and minimize my expenses.

Do you think that isn't the goal for Apple?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#377

Post by dan-robertson »

screwycaboose wrote: post #201

Seems like a lot of these examples are intentionally ignoring the rules that allow them as exceptions just to build up a bigger strawman: * Netflix: Reader app (reader is a special Apple exception for movies/tv, books, news... mass-market media) * Github: Offers a free tier * App store connect: I mean come on, it's an Apple dev tool * Tesla: exception for physical goods Basecamp/Hey knew this was going to happen. It'…

> Also, where has Basecamp been for the decade prior? Funny how they're propping this as some rightgeous issue when it suddenly impacts their bottom line.

I think they testified in the US Congress about Apple’s practices recently

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#378

Post by Wowfunhappy »

alasdair_ wrote: post #370
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey is a tiny app used by a few people; it's not essential. If Hey became a cultural phenomenon, I'd bet that Apple would magically reinterpret their rules. This is exactly the purpose of having competition.

>If they became a cultural phenomenon I'd bet that Apple would magically reinterpret their rules. Please trust me on this but, even if your app is far and away the #1 grossing app on the app store and hundreds of media outlets have literally used the term "cultural phenomenon" to describe it, Apple is still a huge stickler on the rules and it still takes forever (and a lot of stress) to get approved, every single upd…

Yes, but Apple would have a lot less power if developers could threaten (even theoretically) to go around the App Store.

Even now, major apps do have power. Unlike Hey, Netflix and Amazon are at least still in the App Store, and Amazon is even allowed to sell video rentals through their app without going through Apple's payment system: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/1/21203294/amazon-prime-vide...

Edit: My posts probably read like contradictions. I see it like this: (1) The safe and vetted App Store is a part of the iPhone's appeal, which (2) Apple is currently enforcing through anti-competitive tactics. If Apple wants to maintain the App Store as a product differentiator (which of course they do), they should have to do the work to keep developers happy. Where "keep happy" means very basic things like not taking a full 30% of their revenue.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#379

Post by reaperducer »

grawprog wrote: post #360
roenxi wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things are true; and also a significant component of Apple's value proposition. An Apple customer can be sure they will: 1) Never need to learn what a "sideload" is 2) Never be exposed to Apps that havn't been vetted by a trustworthy party (in this case Apple) Apple is taking the opportunity to milk app developers, but they've done an effective job of positioning the milking process so that it is done in the us…

>2) Never be exposed to Apps that havn't been vetted by a trustworthy party (in this case Apple) And yet, even after being vetted malware still gets in https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/apple-battles-app-store-mal... I see this a lot, and to be honest, this 'Apple products are free from malware' meme has been carried on as long as I can remember in one form or another since the early Mac days. The amount of people tha…

And yet, even after being vetted malware still gets in

I don't remember ever seeing Apple promise that 100% of apps will be 100% safe 100% of the time. Can you provide a link?

Apple's review process is done by people. People make mistakes. Things get through when bad people are trying to hide that they're doing bad things. But I'll take Apple's 1-in-a-million mistake environment over the anything goes Android environment.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#380

Post by maest »

jpttsn wrote: post #243
dgudkov wrote: post #76

On a side note, I don't know whether it's intentional or not, but the whole story is a great marketing campaign for HEY. Clashing with Apple made everybody learn about the app in a matter of days.

It’s obviously intentional. I’ve never heard about Hey. Then today, first they post something else and now someone defrosts this tired whine about Apple monetizing, and Hey (whatever it is) tops the list. Sigh. Good work marketers, people seem to buy it.

So just because the publicity benefits Hey, the point about Apple's unequal treatment of devs on their platform is invalidated?

Also, I'm not sure how Hey orchestrated this - do they have someone on the inside who they had reject their app?

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