You download the app and it doesn’t work • Hacker News Board

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#391

Post by lern_too_spel » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:43 AM UTC

hendzen wrote: post #37

Apple takes a 30% cut of all IAP. Google scrapes info and displays it in widgets above links to the actual content. Google charges trademark holders AdWords ransom to protect searches for their own brands. Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost. Amazon picks off the best performing market place categories with Amazon Basics ‘recommended’ competitors. The list go…

> Google scrapes info and displays it in widgets above links to the actual content. Google charges trademark holders AdWords ransom to protect searches for their own brands.

All search engines do this. It doesn't depend on building scale and then exploiting it. The experience is better for the user.

> Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost.

All cloud providers do this. It also doesn't depend on building and exploiting scale. The experience is better for the user.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#392

Post by jpttsn » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:43 AM UTC

5Qn8mNbc2FNCiVV wrote: post #330

jpttsn wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s totally optional; if you don’t want to participate, don’t. Sell your software any way you want outside their store. Take out ads in local papers or something.

That's the issue, you can't. Simple as that, you cannot get your software onto an iPhone without paying the 30% (or offloading it to your customers)

So don’t sell iPhone versions. Sell software for platforms that support arbitrary software. Or pay Apple for distribution in their walled garden. It’s totally up to you.

The parameters have been clear for over a decade, and it’s really time to stop whining that the iPhone is not an open platform. Apple is the only iPhone app distribution channel and they make the rules. If you don’t want that, don’t buy an iPhone/don’t make iPhone apps. If you make iPhone apps, own it.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#393

Post by screwycaboose » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:44 AM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #70

MattGaiser wrote: post #53

One of the problems is that as a consumer, I like the features Apple implements with this. I can just use Apple Pay instead of handing over my credit card. Don't want a subscription? No complicated process. No need to call a number. No need to email anyone. I just click to cancel and I am done. As lousy as this is, the consumer experience is dramatically improved.

> As lousy as this is, the consumer experience is dramatically improved. Is that worth paying $43 extra per year on a HEY subscription?

Probably could be a lot less than $43/mo if Basecamp didn't feel the need to spend 7 figures on a domain.

They're not filling some massive need; it's yet another email service. If they can't justify it at $142 a year how do they justify it at $99 a year? You reap what you sow.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#394

Post by csours » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:44 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #214

arduinomancer wrote: post #175

Why is Apple's revenue here even percentage-based at all? It makes zero sense. According to Apple they need this revenue cut because of the cost of keeping the platform running. If I offer a subscription in my app for 1$/month vs 10$/month what marginal expense is being incurred that apple deserves an extra $2.70 for the higher price?

This is my big problem with it too. The cost of maintaining the app store and the search is the same no matter what the app is. It should be a fixed fee. On the other hand the argument is that all the $0 apps are being subsidized by the paid apps, so they went percentage based so that the cheap apps didn't have a huge fee. It would mean the cheapest paid apps in the app store would be a lot more to absorb the fixed c…

I mean, it would relatively easy to say 30% up to a maximum of $5, or something along those lines.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#395

Post by tootie » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:44 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #152

tootie wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about the value of the ecosystem but that's just personal taste. From an economic perspective, Apple is raking in cash and it only investing part of it back into feature development. They're 30% in-app purchase rent could just be 15 or 20% and they'd still be able to easily fund their UX teams. They're not charging what they need to operate, they're charging as much as the market can bare. And the market c…

What company doesn’t charge what the market will bare and has a goal to just break even?

Any company that wants to stay competitive. The entire point of this post is that iOS app makers are deliberately hurting their customer experience because their monopolist platform is charging unreasonable fees.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#396

Post by csours » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:44 AM UTC

Drew_ wrote: post #280

jedberg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my big problem with it too. The cost of maintaining the app store and the search is the same no matter what the app is. It should be a fixed fee. On the other hand the argument is that all the $0 apps are being subsidized by the paid apps, so they went percentage based so that the cheap apps didn't have a huge fee. It would mean the cheapest paid apps in the app store would be a lot more to absorb the fixed c…

You still have to pay $100-$300 to publish a completely free app.

But not per user.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#397

Post by ratww » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:44 AM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #307

ratww wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...or anything else. I'll bring it up again: game consoles. Steam. And no, they don't deserve a pass.

I do think game consoles kind of deserve a pass [1], but okay, I can see where you're coming from with that. Why Steam? No one ever has to use Steam--you can install whatever you want on your PC. Steam isn't even installed by default in 99% of cases. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579943

GP asked "why software makers should share their revenue with Apple" and said "nothing else" is like that. I was just pointing examples of things that were exactly like that.

As for the why: I'm thinking from the point of view of a developer. For me it's all the same. Paying 30% to Apple is the same as paying 30% to Steam or x% to console makers. In practice it doesn't matter if the appliance the user runs my software is essential or not, or if the store is exclusive, or comes preinstalled or not. I'm still paying a percentage to someone.

Sucks in all cases.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#398

Post by jpttsn » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:45 AM UTC

scq wrote: post #331

jpttsn wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s totally optional; if you don’t want to participate, don’t. Sell your software any way you want outside their store. Take out ads in local papers or something.

Apparently not: https://www.protocol.com/hey-email-app-store-rejection According to Apple, if your app is not a "reader" app it must allow subscribing in-app.

Only if you want them to carry it in their store. But you don’t want to do that, or at least not pay for it, so don’t. Make a web app or something.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#399

Post by jpttsn » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:47 AM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #369

ilikehurdles wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you have that option. Your Apple hardware is your Costco Membership Card. You aren’t able to buy Sam’s Club products using your Costco membership, and Costco’s under no expectation to make them available to you.

But I can buy a fridge at Costco, buy food from Sam's Club, and still store my food in my fridge. I don't have to throw out Costco's fridge in order to buy food elsewhere.

Your fridge is compatible with any food.

Your iPhone is not compatible with any software.

Some things are compatible and some things are not.

Edit: “Compatible” is not about the tech in this case (the binary would theoretically run) but about the terms of your agreement with the manufacturer.

If you buy a Costco fridge and with it a contract to only store Costco-sold food in it, then you have a better analogy. 80% of the world seems to prefer the AnyFood Fridge, and for some reason 20% buy the Costco with the agreement.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#400

Post by screwycaboose » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:47 AM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #315

I am amazed how many people on HN are defending Apple. I had the naive assumption that my fellow tech savvy would denounce this. The comments here are eye-opening. It is as if a lot of people just don’t see or don’t care about monopoly or monopolistic behavior. The product is great, Apple is has the highest market cap of any company in the world, it’s founder has god-like status. What’s the problem?

Because it's not a monopoly. Apple is roughly half of the marketshare in the US, and dramatically lower than that worldwide.

They're also not saying that Hey can't be in their store, or even needs to pay them anything. Hey could offer a free tier and wouldn't owe Apple a dime. Basecamp already does this so they know it very well.