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How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

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Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#411
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, it starts to feel like work when I have to rebuild large parts of my factory because I didn't leave enough space to expand. This process feels exactly like having to refactor a bad codebase (where you feel the urge to just start from scratch). If you plan your build properly, you can avoid this, but it takes a few runs to learn the best strategies.

You actually don't have to rebuild anything in Factorio. That's your personal decision.

I mean, theoretically...

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of technical problems that are in fact technical problems. e.g: making bluetooth 10% more energy efficient in the next few revisions In fact there are probably infinitely many.

Making Bluetooth 10% more energy efficient in the next few revisions is a terrible example because you absolutely cannot just tackle that by yourself. Not because it's technically hard, but because it's actually a people problem in disguise! If you just walk up to the mailing list with the complete designs, documents, experimental results, schematics, trade offs, feasibility studies, you know what you're going to get…

> Making Bluetooth 10% more energy efficient in the next few revisions is a terrible example because you absolutely cannot just tackle that by yourself. Not because it's technically hard, but because it's actually a people problem in disguise!

I know a person who 2x'ed BTLE transfer speeds by herself by coming up with a new protocol to talk to iPhones w/o the need for one of Apple's security chips.

Sufficient brainpower can do amazing things.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#413

> Tobias Lütke, co-founder and CEO of the ecommerce platform Shopify, lets his staff expense their copies of Factorio. “It’s just bound to be good for Shopify if people play Factorio for a little while,” he told the Invest Like The Best podcast. “Because part of Shopify is building warehouses and fulfilling products for our customers. We are building global supply chains, and Factorio makes a game out of that kind of…

It's interesting, this isn't the first time Shopify's CEO Tobias has looked to videogames to find skills he wants in employees.

He's a longtime Starcraft fan for example, and offered an ex Starcraft pro a job on the strength of that alone.

There is a reddit thread where he participated in that had some interesting perspectives that I think may be of interest to this forum: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/dl3o2p/billionai...

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel I contribute to society more by working on a side project of mine than if I play video games.

Most "side projects" have no users, other than maybe their creator, and therefore provide zero value to society. Furthermore, there's no intrinsic value in "contributing to society" — a term that is completely arbitrary, anyway. If the idea that you can improve society with your projects provides you joy, more power to you, but that's all it should boil down to: doing what you enjoy the most.

I do not know about "most", maybe.

I agree that "contributing to society" has no intrinsic value. It is my own.

I feel like I waste my time when I play video games, but this is recent. I used to play a lot till age 24 or something. This feeling stops me from playing, but even if I do end up playing, I feel guilty afterwards that my time went to something that ultimately "does not matter". That said, playing something for fun is entertainment, it should matter, but I still get those feelings nevertheless. I hope this makes sense. I am not trying to argue that "fun" does not matter, I suppose I am just not so fun anymore. :P

It depends though, if I play a video game with my girlfriend it is alright.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#415
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the permaculture of: patches in emails; binaries on usenet; releases / of sources on maybe less savoury personal web sites otoh lack of basically centralized source control / git / hub / lab etc would also be missed dearly depending on context: corporate polish can be fine; especially if software "is infra"; let truly (?) fun inconsequential software be messy and / or fun if sparks joy apropos permaculture: i enjoyed…

TIS-100 was more of a puzzle game than a sandbox factory building game like factorio. TIS has a much tighter game loop with hard success metrics for each challenge. I wouldn’t really compare the two.

TIS-100 was one example of the general context of "programming in games" or "games as programming" which I've actually played and enjoyed. I get that Factorio has a different game loop and broader sandbox than TIS-100, so I can see where you're coming from. Factorio, on the outset however, hasn't quite gripped me. Again, it might be this particular one's art and overall setup, but TBH I also think that outside of constrained puzzling as you say, I'm much more inclined to work on all those little side projects desperately waiting for attention...

In some ways, this reminds me of Guitar Hero and its set of games. As great as those are for getting into music, once you're already into it, it can feel like time that could have been better spent on deliberate practice or at least some good old jamming for fun. I do love games, as long as they don't take up too much time and have an ending. In an earlier life I've already burned plenty of midnight oil on similarly "open ended" play (4X and other strategy or construction games are the worst traps for me). I'd rather finish BG3 at some point - at least that one has a definitive end to the player's story and is a bit more of a change of scenery from what I do for a living (building and optimizing systems).

Then again... maybe I'll finally try Satisfactory which I own through Humble Choice IIRC; or maybe I should avoid doing that at all costs for the reasons above... ;)

TL;DR IT'S A TRAP

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#416
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a crazy ascetic view of life. Also completely unrelated to almost anyone on this forum, since it’s unlikely most here are doing any work that saves anyone’s life

To his credit, Peter Singer actually is a crazy ascetic.

Taleb would be proud.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#417
Factorio isn’t like work as much as it tickles the same spots on my brain that my favorite parts of work do as well. After putting in 2K+ hours to the game I have the follow suggestions/advice for new/experienced players:

* Play your first game without mods (or very limited QoL mods)

* Don’t use blueprints from others online (at least in your first play through), you can watch videos if you are truly stuck but copy/pasting what others have done can ruin the fun

* Don’t always try to min/max. If that’s what you like then more power to you but I often guess at things or over-provision because it lets me keep playing and not get bogged down

* Before you look for blueprints online use something like Helmod or Factory Planner, blueprints can really ruin the game for me at least. The one exception is belt balancers, those are fine to copy. You can share your own blueprints between games but taking blueprints from online feels too much like cheating. Study them and reproduce them if you need to but I promise it will be more satisfying to do it yourself rather than just plopping down what someone else did.

* Don’t try to build the best or “final” version of something at first. As in, build what you need now and re-evaluate later when it’s not enough. I’ve ruined the “fun” before because I was too hung up on making a production line too complicated/large/etc too early. Don’t make your first smelting operation at a scale you’d use in late game, you’ll build a new smelting setup later and that’s fine.

* Go into the game blind, don’t research “the best way to do X”, your first (few) play throughs will be more fun if explore and learn on your own.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#418
post #319
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We keep a postit list next to the breadmaker and write stuff down when we need to get something. Then when it is time to go shopping, we simply peel off the list and away we go. I am getting disgusted by people who need to have that screen in their hand, all waking hours.

My apologies that using available technology to improve upon suboptimal solutions disgusts you. In case it helps to know why "that screen" improves upon paper in the first place: - I'm not always home when I decide to want to buy something, so then I couldn't write it on that paper - We go shopping together most of the time. That screen lets you check items off and sync that to the other person's that screen. Alterna…

"suboptimal" => optimal

I'm getting the distinct impression that handwriting human language may be beyond the basic capabilities of the Modern Human.

Seems to be memory and basic cognitive difficulties such as "sorting" whatever that means when actually buying the stuff in the store. I've been buying stuff in stores constantly for 50 years and I'm very fast, without aid.

But boy howdy these devices sound like just the tool for people with actual cognitive difficulties; we should make definitely sure that they have them. Might be a problem though on the data entry side.

edit: improve accuracy

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#419
post #50
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its just fun. "Okay wth, today we're going to make the entire base solar powered" When making software that's supposed to be used, you can't mess around that much. At the end of the day, someone has to use it and if its weird it'll be bad. But in Factorio? Nobody is using it so sure, make it bizzare. Change the rules, let yourself go. Don't test the design just send it. Bored? Too challenging? Don't bother finishing…

> When making software that's supposed to be used, you can't mess around that much. At the end of the day, someone has to use it and if its weird it'll be bad. This makes me sad. You don’t need to make software for mass appeal. Git is weird and bizarre (especially when initially released), but it’s used and well loved.

> You don’t need to make software for mass appeal.

In Factorio, the things you make don't need to have *any* appeal. It's just fun.

If you have more fun making random wonky software, that's great for you and I'm happy for you. But I personally find Factorio to be more fun than software when I'm trying to enjoy my days off. (at least, some of the time. Sometimes I have fun making software too but only if I have that 'itch'. With Factorio, it's fun even if I don't have an itch)

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#420
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My apartment recently moved over to “smart locks” and I immediately noped out (app is slow), choosing to memorize the codes instead. This was clearly an afterthought since about 40% of the time touches are missed when using the keypads. Why anyone wanted to unlock their door with their phone instead of tapping a fob, I’m not sure, but the only interesting feature (temp access for friends) doesn’t seem worth it.

"Why anyone wanted to unlock their door with their phone instead of tapping a fob, " I would want to do it with my phone because then I only have to have one thing to carry around with me. I haven't carried a key ring in years. I don't even carry a wallet these days. It's really quite useful. Way fewer trips back to fetch the keys/wallet, etc.

> I would want to do it with my phone because then I only have to have one thing to carry around with me.

I would prefer this to be a keyring over a phone for aforementioned reasons. Secondly, the app is buggy and often just fails to work. Third, it takes a good deal of time to take out the phone and fumble around with the software.

All in all, it's a pretty miserable experience.

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