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Food security and the coming storm

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Re: Food security and the coming storm

#411

Post by SkyPuncher »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #383
geoduck14 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you cannot safely use toddler formula as a replacement for infant formula. This needs to be repeated. Do not swap them. My wife and I were trying to help a family by buying them formula - and we bought the wrong age range. It makes a big difference. Don't do it. On a side note, we are going to donate the formula we can't use to a stranger. So. There's that.

I mean, that makes sense, but on the other hand, I'm pretty sure human breast milk doesn't change composition as a child ages. If it's possible to develop a formula that is "close to human breast milk as possible", the age range really shouldn't matter.

Regardless of whether the formula changes/doesn't change is essentially irrelevant. As a baby grows, their diet grows as well. A toddler can get by on infant formula (though less than optimal).

This situation primarily impacts 0 to 4 months olds and secondarily 4 to 6 months old. It's less than ideal fora 6 to 12 month old to use a sub-par diet, but it's much less critical than in a newborn.

Basically, the newborn range is growing so quickly that small deficiency can have huge cascading effects. Old babies are a bit more resilient because they're growing a bit slower (relatively) and have more buffer in their reserves for certain things.

In my opinion, what you're arguing is equivalent to saying "children should be allowed to drink alcohol. If it's safe for adults, it's safe for children".

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#412

Post by SkyPuncher »

IncRnd wrote: post #81
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't claim that the required supplements are literally not available on the commercial market, but the FDA requirements ( https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfr... ) include over a dozen nutrients to track, some within a relatively narrow safety range. It's not practical to expect that stressed, busy new parents are gonna buy all these supplements, much less break out their scales and care…

> It's not practical to expect that stressed, busy new parents are gonna buy all these supplements, much less break out their scales and carefully measure 2-7 micrograms of selenium per 100 kcal. Brown Rice contains selenium. Even when not breastfeeding, real foods contain micro and macro nutrients that are beneficial for babies.

I can also buy 20 proof ethanol at my local gas station. It'd kill me, but hey way is gasoline any different than gin. They're both 10% ethanol.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#413

Post by SkyPuncher »

oneoff786 wrote: post #384
ALittleLight wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anything about the safe DIY manufacture of baby formula, but, even if I assumed what you are saying is true, and I'm pretty confident you're wrong, that isn't even an argument. We should deny people good instructions, forcing those who want to try to use bad instructions, because some people might incorrectly follow the good instructions?

There is no safe DIY manufacture of baby formula. It’s just not something you should attempt without being an expert. Step one is to become an expert. The reason to not put out a set of instructions that people cannot follow is because they cannot follow it, and those that attempt to follow it will likely make serious mistakes. It would do more harm than good to put out a government sanctioned recipe, no matter how m…

It's amazing how people people fail to understand that making baby formula is the equivalent to making a drug. Yes, you can make coke, meth, and heroin at home.

However, it's also extremely easy to mess it up and kill yourself.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#414

Post by usrn »

guerrilla wrote: post #408
usrn wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to compare homicide and demographic statistics in the US then you should remember that: 1/10 black people here are first generation immigrants which is extremely destabilizing to their communities. Remember that these communities account for the majority of homicides here (according to the federal government.) While 75% (really closer to 85%) of your population is native or White only ~60-50% of the U…

So you're not going to answer any of my questions and drag up more debunked racist talking points? Poor people commit murder. Black people in America are poor (because history but also because America is still extremely racist and won't lift a finger to make up for that history.) > 1/10 black people here are first generation immigrants which is extremely destabilizing to their communities You're not thinking this thr…

>1/3 of our non-European immigrants are first generation

Ok, so that's about the same as what's going on in the Black communities. Maybe have a look at the homicide statistics for the places these immigrants go and I'd bet you'll find a very similar picture.

>Your racist theory would predict that we would have an even higher murder rate than you have.

No, again these nations are more racially homogeneous. They're able to absorb much more of this right now than we can.

>Poor people commit murder.

That's not the whole picture, you can compare poor Black communities and equivalently poor White communities and the Black ones have a much higher rate of crime. Whether that's due to institutional racism or things like this (which I would argue is essentially just another kind of institutional racism) is up to your interpretation.

>Make up for the history

What do you want us to do? We already net negative on the average Black person due to social programs. We're legally barred from discriminating against them in any meaningful way (to the point that many are starting to ask to bring discrimination back.) Should we burn the country down again for them this year? None of the living people were involved and if you look carefully you'll find it was largely the Jewish population doing that. Should we go down that rabbit hole?

>Actually, only 2.8% of your population is native.

Because the nations that used to exist here were overrun by foreigners. Those ended up driving the population out of their lands and tried to eradicate their culture. This kind of thing is what I'm arguing against but you're hung up on skin color and not seeing it.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#415

Post by linsomniac »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #26
h2odragon wrote: post #2

Another: https://jeffreycarter.substack.com/p/no-one-is-talking-about... Few seem to want to talk about this, they want to talk about how coming shortages will best be solved by giving them power or at the least listening to their advice. For all the "Baby formula shortage" media coverage, how many stories have included a recipe for alternatives to commercial formula? Mostly I've seen admonitions to not try making ba…

> For all the "Baby formula shortage" media coverage, how many stories have included a recipe for alternatives to commercial formula? Mostly I've seen admonitions to not try making baby food at home, which is incredibly useless for people trying to feed kids. Thanks for pointing this out. It's like we've forgotten how to function as humans in some respect. Baby formula isn't some magical combination of ingredients. A…

>It's like we've forgotten how to function as humans

I like to bring it up whenever I run out of dishwasher soap: "I ran out of dishwasher soap so I used some liquid dish soap." I do it because it's always followed up with "Did it make a giant mess in your kitchen?" "No, I put a few drops of it in with a bunch of baking soda, worked like a charm!"

I had wondered what I would MacGyver for baby formula, if it were at all relevant to my life right now.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#416

Post by tomjen3 »

lotusmars wrote: post #374
tomjen3 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That should be no problem: stop them at the border.

Putin's media will go into a frenzy. You will have Petersburg trolls posting all over the Reddit "spiteful gay Europeans leave refugees to death, so much for European tolerance!" On the other hand if you let them in, Putin's media will go out of its way to stage provocations or pay some of the refugees to wreak havoc. "Your governments are letting in rapists, so much for European tolerance!" They'll love it either wa…

I can definitely agree with that.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#417

Post by oneoff786 »

ALittleLight wrote: post #407
oneoff786 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That applies to assertions of fact, not reasoned arguments. There is plenty of evidence that incorrectly produced baby formula is dangerous. There are many studies showing the narrow range of nutrition and form of the baby formula that is safe.

Yes, and the claim that there are no safe DIY formula instructions is an assertion of fact. The question of whether incorrectly produced formula could be dangerous was never at issue.

Well we’ve demonstrated that the requirements are very strict, that manufacture standards are precise and include steps not available to laypeople such as ph testing, and that the outcome of a bad creation is potentially fatal. So it seems reasonable to say it follows that there are no safe DIY formula instructions because DIY implies lack of expertise which is required to understand the points listed above.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#418

Post by oneoff786 »

IncRnd wrote: post #403
oneoff786 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean your link. You seem to think that webmd article describes how to make baby formula. It does not. It describes how to transition your baby to solid foods once it is ready. They’re not the same thing. If you follow the recipes there for a young baby you will likely kill the baby.

>I mean your link. You seem to think that webmd article describes how to make baby formula. I'm not sure what you saw, but I never posted a webmd link.

> For a place better than tiktok, there is a ton of information on WebMD showing how to quickly and safely make baby food.

> google.com/search?q=webmd+baby+food+recipes

Extremely likely that the first hit will be: https://www.webmd.com/baby/how-to-make-baby-food

Even if you’re going to pretend this isn’t what you meant, the claim that web md has a ton of information on how to make baby food is false, in the context of formula.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#419

Post by Sylveste »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #410
artificialLimbs wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“…talk with your doctor. This is realistically the only safe suggestion since all of the alternatives are bad.“ What exactly do you think we did before baby formula even existed? Or doctors, for that matter? This absolute dependence on systems is disheartening. We need a drastic reconnection with nature.

> What exactly do you think we did before baby formula even existed? Well, we breastfed. Problem is that isn't actually a reliable solution since not all mothers produce milk at the quantities their child needs. This is particular true as a child grows, many mothers grow tired of breastfeeding and look to formula as an alternative. Problem is this deteriorates their milk production since the child is eating less brea…

>People keep acting like there _should_ be a backup to formula

There are backups, which are safer than the alternative of starvation, which has a 100% fatality rate.

A homemade formula which killed 25% of children would still be 400% safer than the alternative of giving them nothing and having them all die.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#420

Post by IncRnd »

oneoff786 wrote: post #418
IncRnd wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I mean your link. You seem to think that webmd article describes how to make baby formula. I'm not sure what you saw, but I never posted a webmd link.

> For a place better than tiktok, there is a ton of information on WebMD showing how to quickly and safely make baby food. > google.com/search?q=webmd+baby+food+recipes Extremely likely that the first hit will be: https://www.webmd.com/baby/how-to-make-baby-food Even if you’re going to pretend this isn’t what you meant, the claim that web md has a ton of information on how to make baby food is false, in the context o…

> Even if you’re going to pretend this isn’t what you meant, the claim that web md has a ton of information on how to make baby food is false, in the context of formula.

I'm not pretending anything. Look at what I wrote (which you actually quoted). "For a place better than tiktok, there is a ton of information on WebMD showing how to quickly and safely make baby food."

I put the link for a google search and referenced the list of results. You chose to only look at the first result to feed a baby. Did you click the button, "I'm Feeling Lucky" that automatically takes you to the first link? That's completely unreasonable and not why I posted that search.

Furthermore, I never said that WebMD shows how to make baby formula.

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