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Food security and the coming storm

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Re: Food security and the coming storm

#381

Post by IncRnd »

oneoff786 wrote: post #258
IncRnd wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a mother doesn't want to or cannot safely breastfeed there is still actual food that a baby can eat. This isn't nearly as daunting or complicated as it may appear at first glance. People really have been doing this for a long time - safely without their babies dying. I've seen people here say they have learned how to feed their babies on tiktok. For a place better than tiktok, there is a ton of information on We…

This is about babies that are ready to transition to solid foods. Not a replacement for formula.

That might be what you want to comment about, but that isn't what "the thread is about." The thread has been discussing a shortage of formula and the safety and efficacy of replacing formula with a different substance for babies to eat.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#382

Post by oneoff786 »

imtringued wrote: post #366
oneoff786 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rigorous procedure involves precise measurements, ph testing, and other things many people do not understand let alone have the capability to execute. But could easily attempt anyway and fuck up

As others have said, it is impossible to verify your statement because the verification method is kept hidden because "it would be dangerous".

You can easily find a list of many steps formula producers go through.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#383

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

geoduck14 wrote: post #300
SkyPuncher wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Baby formula isn't some magical combination of ingredients. This is overlooking an incredibly important piece - composition and reliability. Infants, particularly those under 6 months, have very specific nutritional needs. A subset of that population has extremely strict nutritional needs. Even in a health baby, "stretching" the formula with too much water can cause a dangerous drop in electrolyte levels. For the a…

>you cannot safely use toddler formula as a replacement for infant formula. This needs to be repeated. Do not swap them. My wife and I were trying to help a family by buying them formula - and we bought the wrong age range. It makes a big difference. Don't do it. On a side note, we are going to donate the formula we can't use to a stranger. So. There's that.

I mean, that makes sense, but on the other hand, I'm pretty sure human breast milk doesn't change composition as a child ages. If it's possible to develop a formula that is "close to human breast milk as possible", the age range really shouldn't matter.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#384

Post by oneoff786 »

ALittleLight wrote: post #297
oneoff786 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rigorous procedure involves precise measurements, ph testing, and other things many people do not understand let alone have the capability to execute. But could easily attempt anyway and fuck up

I don't know anything about the safe DIY manufacture of baby formula, but, even if I assumed what you are saying is true, and I'm pretty confident you're wrong, that isn't even an argument. We should deny people good instructions, forcing those who want to try to use bad instructions, because some people might incorrectly follow the good instructions?

There is no safe DIY manufacture of baby formula. It’s just not something you should attempt without being an expert. Step one is to become an expert.

The reason to not put out a set of instructions that people cannot follow is because they cannot follow it, and those that attempt to follow it will likely make serious mistakes. It would do more harm than good to put out a government sanctioned recipe, no matter how many warnings.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#385

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

Throwawayaerlei wrote: post #371
starkd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A baby dying of starvation is probably much worse than the risk of giving it wrong formula. And have you ever heard a hungry baby crying? It's not something you can wait long for.

Elsewhere in this discussion there's a Reddit posting by a pediatrician https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/uvcijm/a_pediatri... . Under four months, home made formula: "Often has a dangerously different osmolality. Infants eat whatever they are given and have dumb kidneys, so are prone to hyponatremia or hypernatremia and every pediatrician has seen a baby die this way. Don’t do it." See that and other discus…

> Often has a dangerously different osmolality

That makes sense, but again, for anyone who has ever taken a chemistry class, creating a solution with a known osmolality is not difficult - basically all you need is a scale. But I also don't doubt that rando TikTok recipes are wildly dangerous.

And the age range argument doesn't really make sense if there were a standard recipe for "human breast milk replacement". I'm pretty sure human breast milk doesn't change composition as a child ages, and no one is arguing you can't breast feed toddlers because the milk is for the wrong age.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#386

Post by oneoff786 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #277
oneoff786 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s crazy that in the face of health authorities saying don’t do this, it’s dangerous, your reaction is “prove it”, rather than doing some research on your own to counter your skepticism. The lack of trust in public institutions is deeply saddening. The problem with baby formula is that it needs to contain precise balances of nutrition in specific forms that can be absorbed by the body in specific ways. Much in the…

> It’s crazy that in the face of health authorities saying don’t do this, it’s dangerous, your reaction is “prove it”, rather than doing some research on your own to counter your skepticism. The lack of trust in public institutions is deeply saddening. I 100% disagree. I'm not an idiot. I can read a recipe, even a complicated recipe. And I'm not even saying they're wrong. I'm just asking for some simple example of wh…

Well for one, do some fucking research, as I suggested in the very passage you quoted, before you make bold assertions about what’s reasonable. The answers to your questions are easily found.

You do not have the ingredients. It’s not just foods. You cannot make safe baby formula from foods. You don’t have the equipment to produce it. It requires specific mixing and heating and what not to arrive at specific consistencies and sterility so that it is absorbable by the body correctly. You don’t have the measurement equipment to get the ratios correct to the margins needed. You don’t have the quality controls to check that they are ok for things like acidity. You don’t have the expertise to evaluate outcomes. You apparently don’t have the inclination to research it on your own either so it’s triply dangerous.

In the 20s people started using milk based formula. Babies got scurvy and rickets. They threw in orange juice. They got bacterial infections.

If you want to roll the dice with your baby’s health because you think you’re smarter than the government go ahead. Here’s Wikipedia, the simplest lowest bar of research you were unwilling to do but complain about either way. It has the basic progression. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_formula

Flour and milk mostly. Go nuts.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#387

Post by oneoff786 »

IncRnd wrote: post #381
oneoff786 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about babies that are ready to transition to solid foods. Not a replacement for formula.

That might be what you want to comment about, but that isn't what "the thread is about." The thread has been discussing a shortage of formula and the safety and efficacy of replacing formula with a different substance for babies to eat.

I mean your link. You seem to think that webmd article describes how to make baby formula. It does not. It describes how to transition your baby to solid foods once it is ready. They’re not the same thing. If you follow the recipes there for a young baby you will likely kill the baby.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#388

Post by oneoff786 »

guerrilla wrote: post #296
oneoff786 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very dangerous. Do not give advice on things you don’t know. It’s not just a vague nutrition profile you’re trying to hit.

Stop being ridiculous. It's not advice, it's an argument. Find your revipes elsewhere.

Well it’s a shit argument. You cannot create safe baby formula with vegetables and a blender.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#389

Post by usrn »

guerrilla wrote: post #380
usrn wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that these policies are a large part of why Northern Europe is doing so well. The best thing you can do for people in other countries is help them clean up their own countries. People keep calling it colonialism though.

It's not possible. 1/11th of our population in Sweden has an immigrant background and we have a far higher standard of living than most of the planet, including the US. > The best thing you can do for people in other countries is help them clean up their own countries What do you live in hole or something? They're coming because they cannot survive in their own countries due to war, genocide, famine and other very se…

The majority of those immigrants are likely from other European countries with similar cultures and backgrounds. If you take in too many immigrants you'll just destabilize Switzerland and then Everywhere has the same problem.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#390

Post by guerrilla »

usrn wrote: post #389
guerrilla wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not possible. 1/11th of our population in Sweden has an immigrant background and we have a far higher standard of living than most of the planet, including the US. > The best thing you can do for people in other countries is help them clean up their own countries What do you live in hole or something? They're coming because they cannot survive in their own countries due to war, genocide, famine and other very se…

The majority of those immigrants are likely from other European countries with similar cultures and backgrounds. If you take in too many immigrants you'll just destabilize Switzerland and then Everywhere has the same problem.

> The majority of those immigrants are likely from other European countries with similar cultures and backgrounds.

Nope. Please stop guessing. Only 35.4% were born in Europe. It's no wonder you come to your terrible conclusions if you just make things up and don't bother to look up trivial facts.

> If you take in too many immigrants you'll just destabilize Switzerland

This is just racism.

> Switzerland

Why should anyone listen to your racism when you're confounding Sweden and Switzerland when it's written right in front of your face?

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