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Food security and the coming storm

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Re: Food security and the coming storm

#291

Post by SkyPuncher »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #26
h2odragon wrote: post #2

Another: https://jeffreycarter.substack.com/p/no-one-is-talking-about... Few seem to want to talk about this, they want to talk about how coming shortages will best be solved by giving them power or at the least listening to their advice. For all the "Baby formula shortage" media coverage, how many stories have included a recipe for alternatives to commercial formula? Mostly I've seen admonitions to not try making ba…

> For all the "Baby formula shortage" media coverage, how many stories have included a recipe for alternatives to commercial formula? Mostly I've seen admonitions to not try making baby food at home, which is incredibly useless for people trying to feed kids. Thanks for pointing this out. It's like we've forgotten how to function as humans in some respect. Baby formula isn't some magical combination of ingredients. A…

> Baby formula isn't some magical combination of ingredients.

This is overlooking an incredibly important piece - composition and reliability. Infants, particularly those under 6 months, have very specific nutritional needs. A subset of that population has extremely strict nutritional needs. Even in a health baby, "stretching" the formula with too much water can cause a dangerous drop in electrolyte levels.

For the average person, it's going to be extremely difficult to source, process, mix, and hydrate ingredients (and test it all) to properly feed their baby.

----

To put things in perspective, toddler formula is _extremely_ similar to infant formula, but the ratios are slightly different. This slightly difference means you cannot safely use toddler formula as a replacement for infant formula.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#292

Post by SkyPuncher »

h2odragon wrote: post #105
xyzzyz wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the old days, the alternative to store bought baby formula has not been a home-made one, it has rather been a wet nurse. At the time, people had more kids, so there were usually wet nurses available close by.

Goats milk

Which is associated with anemia in infants....

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#293

Post by guerrilla »

Victerius wrote: post #204
guerrilla wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which would kill them and cause massive suffering, so... no? I don't understand how people can be both this cruel and want to propagate such a norm: What happens when it's your turn to starve outside the gate? This kind of rhetoric is _not_ in your self-interest. Nobody is immune to the potential to need to migrate.

> Nobody is immune to the potential to need to migrate. People in wealthy, food-secure countries are. (immune to the potential to need to migrate)

All empires fall. Climate change and wars happen.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#294

Post by shagie »

HWR_14 wrote: post #235
shagie wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I've subscribed to Factor75 and am generally pleased with them) Yes, the food seems a bit pricy... until I head out and eat at a restaurant. Its certainly more costly than raw ingredients and making it yourself - but in terms of "the cost vs eating out" it is rather competitive. I'm also become a fan of Tovala ( https://www.tovala.com ). Their thing is that its a "smart toaster oven" which scans a barcode or QR code…

> I'm also become a fan of Tovala ( https://www.tovala.com ). Their thing is that its a "smart toaster oven" which scans a barcode or QR code and can do a complex set of instructions at programmed times. Looks interesting, but for some unfathomable reason it requires WiFi access. So I assume it never disconnects and builds a giant database of everything you've ever cooked.

> So I assume it never disconnects and builds a giant database of everything you've ever cooked.

Possibly - and in today's world I'd even go with "probably." The "scan a UPC and get the 'how to cook'" needs some external access. I haven't decoded the QR code to determine if the recipe instructions is encoded in there, or if that's a lookup - I suspect its encoded rather than a lookup (and the QR code based meals appear to work without wifi).

The database, however, would only be useful/of the UPCs and raw ingredient based that you scan rather than the meal plan since with a meal subscription service, they've already got that data. And as a regular toaster oven, doing "bake 375°" isn't leaking any data about what you are eating.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#295

Post by Sylveste »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #291
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For all the "Baby formula shortage" media coverage, how many stories have included a recipe for alternatives to commercial formula? Mostly I've seen admonitions to not try making baby food at home, which is incredibly useless for people trying to feed kids. Thanks for pointing this out. It's like we've forgotten how to function as humans in some respect. Baby formula isn't some magical combination of ingredients. A…

> Baby formula isn't some magical combination of ingredients. This is overlooking an incredibly important piece - composition and reliability. Infants, particularly those under 6 months, have very specific nutritional needs. A subset of that population has extremely strict nutritional needs. Even in a health baby, "stretching" the formula with too much water can cause a dangerous drop in electrolyte levels. For the a…

So, if infant formula is unavailable the course of action you recommend is simply letting the child go and making another one, because it won't be possible to guarantee that any alternative food source is 100% perfect?

That's the weird thing about these interactions. If someone's asking for an alternative to infant formula - because they can't get any - the situation is already unsafe. Starvation has a 100% fatality rate.

Infant formula isn't part of the scenario being discussed. Alternatives are to be compared against starvation, as that is part of the scenario being discussed. Do alternatives have a 100% fatality rate? No. So why all the weird 'there's just no viable alternative' comments?

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#296

Post by guerrilla »

oneoff786 wrote: post #259
guerrilla wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now imagine if they had cheap vegetables, milk and blenders.

This is very dangerous. Do not give advice on things you don’t know. It’s not just a vague nutrition profile you’re trying to hit.

Stop being ridiculous. It's not advice, it's an argument. Find your revipes elsewhere.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#297

Post by ALittleLight »

oneoff786 wrote: post #266
ALittleLight wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people would trust the government and authorities generally more, if those authorities weren't constantly lying to them. The authorities could say "Here is a rigorous procedure for DIY formula. We strongly recommend against using this, except in an emergency, because slight deviations could result in harm or death for the baby." Instead, they seem to give the impression that DIY formula is never advisable or…

A rigorous procedure involves precise measurements, ph testing, and other things many people do not understand let alone have the capability to execute. But could easily attempt anyway and fuck up

I don't know anything about the safe DIY manufacture of baby formula, but, even if I assumed what you are saying is true, and I'm pretty confident you're wrong, that isn't even an argument. We should deny people good instructions, forcing those who want to try to use bad instructions, because some people might incorrectly follow the good instructions?

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#298

Post by 10u152 »

adriand wrote: post #170
atmartins wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here me out: this sounds like an excuse. If you really want to solve it you could. I did. I use a wok to cook and it's faster than going to McDonalds. It's slower than a frozen meal but not by much. I don't aim for perfection, rather, most of my meals I try and make healthy. I still love bacon. In less than 10 minutes you can chop celery, broccoli, tofu, chicken, etc. If it takes longer then solve that problem: bette…

We lived for a couple weeks in Nicaragua and we hired the sister of the guy who maintained the property to cook for us (an optional service we were quick to agree to). On the first day she cooked a big batch of black beans in a pot. She left the pot on the stove, and would briefly bring to a boil each morning and night, which eliminated the need for refrigeration. With each successive day she’d throw in a few things…

Do you mean that it was always on ? To prevent bacteria you need to keep it above 65c or so to prevent bacteria. Heating it up once a day does kill bacteria but does not remove the toxic byproducts of bacteria which is what actually makes you sick.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#299

Post by [deleted] »

abandonliberty wrote: post #217
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find two things funny... it might be a local thing (i'm from slovenia) but yeah... 1) gas was ~1.5eur here, then it fell to 1.0eur during the plague, and there were zero price drops beacause of that, and when the price started rising to 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 eur, everybody (farmers, retailers) started complaining about increasing gas prices and how that will result in higher consumer prices (even before we hit the price a…

Farmers expect you to pay extra for the inconvenience, in addition to already cutting out the middle-men. Same thing everywhere I've been in more developed countries across North America and Asia. Even Bali. The most charitable interpretation is that farmers are simply not as optimized as grocery stores, resulting in a higher overall cost.

[deleted]

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#300

Post by geoduck14 »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #291
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For all the "Baby formula shortage" media coverage, how many stories have included a recipe for alternatives to commercial formula? Mostly I've seen admonitions to not try making baby food at home, which is incredibly useless for people trying to feed kids. Thanks for pointing this out. It's like we've forgotten how to function as humans in some respect. Baby formula isn't some magical combination of ingredients. A…

> Baby formula isn't some magical combination of ingredients. This is overlooking an incredibly important piece - composition and reliability. Infants, particularly those under 6 months, have very specific nutritional needs. A subset of that population has extremely strict nutritional needs. Even in a health baby, "stretching" the formula with too much water can cause a dangerous drop in electrolyte levels. For the a…

>you cannot safely use toddler formula as a replacement for infant formula.

This needs to be repeated. Do not swap them.

My wife and I were trying to help a family by buying them formula - and we bought the wrong age range. It makes a big difference. Don't do it.

On a side note, we are going to donate the formula we can't use to a stranger. So. There's that.

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