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Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#411

Post by yellow_lead »

seibelj wrote: post #328
analyst74 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's partly due Chinese brainwashing, and partly due to American brainwashing. Imagine whenever an American expat talks to a foreigner, which happens daily, someone mentions racism in US. Very soon people will get really sick and tired of hearing about it, and will emotionally deny/downplay its existence.

What’s funny is the most racist interactions I have had in professional situations were with Chinese businessmen. China is exceptionally racist. But they do try to cudgel America with it repeatedly.

China is so racist they're throwing people into forced labor camps and prisons based off their ethnicity.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#413

Post by Aunche »

yunohn wrote: post #400
Aunche wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s forced manual labor, done for the benefit of the non-imprisoned populace. From what I understand, when the media talks about an Apple supplier exploiting Uighurs for example, they're talking about a factory that employs willing people and others who are forced to find a job or else they'll be sent back to a detention camp. This is terrible, but it's not comparable to being sent off to a laogai camp. >Mass shutd…

> they're talking about a factory that employs willing people Prisoners forced to choose between harsh detention or menial factory work, are not “willing”. This is the same argument made by people against minimum wage increases - “why do low wage workers do such jobs, they have a choice”. The USA also has the same kind of prison labor, and inmates are forced to work for the profit of companies and the state, while re…

>Prisoners forced to choose between harsh detention or menial factory work, are not “willing”

I mean that the factories employ regular employees as well as those threatened to be sent back to detention. I don't see why both groups of people should be punished so that people thousands of miles away can feel a better conscience.

>I’m talking about the general global populace waking up to the fact that their goods are made by (essentially) slaves, as a result of labor shutdowns.

Has anything like that has ever happened in history? I don't see how people in economic distress are less likely to care about the plight of others. Meanwhile, if people cared enough to cut all trade with China, I don't see what more awareness would get us.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#414

Post by throwaway210222 »

c_o_n_v_e_x wrote: post #339
sudosysgen wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not Iraq. It's insane to compare the two. Europe was okay with the first invasion of Iraq because they frankly had very little to lose and a lot to gain. Meanwhile suiciding the EU economy by cutting off Chinese exports would hurt the EU a lot more than it would hurt China and certainly much more than the invasion of Kuwait. In any case I'd recommend reading what Chinese generals write on the subject. For th…

"China is the only country in the world that produces everything it needs for daily operations, without a single exception, in one way or another." ...produces finished goods. China cannot do this without massive imports of raw materials copper, iron ore, coal, etc. China has effectively colonized Africa for access to said raw materials. Belt and Road is a way to set up overland routes to avoid any naval blockades.

> China has effectively colonized Africa

Where do you you get this crap from?

I live in Africa and I have never been told what to do by a Chinese official or business - or even a local official actin on the instructions of a mandarin.

Unless you have watered 'colonisation' down to 'Chinese interests own some stuff in parts of Africa'.

Which - to indulge my woke hat - pretty offensive to people who lived under actual colonisation.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#415

Post by blkhp19 »

justicezyx wrote: post #358
MangoCoffee wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its sad. when Sun Yat-sen the father of modern China take on the Qing dynasty. Hong Kong was the base. It wasn't part of China and a lot of Chinese who is educated under the British rule understand what Sun try to achieve. a modern and free country. Hong Kong have been a base for a lot of progressive Chinese. Now that Hong Kong is fully back into China and the 50 years of no changes (for Hong Kong) promised by Deng X…

> It wasn't part of China HK was sold to Britain as part of the corrupted and weak China's humiliation. What do you want to say? Are you trying to depict the image that HK has been forcefully claimed by China? Please stop this type of propaganda behavior. I don't like CCP, but that does not make HK not part of China. We Chinese eventually will get rid of CCP, but we don't want the great nation get split. Just like an…

Who cares what it was / wasn't part of. The majority of people in HK don't want to be part of China. That's all that matters.

> We Chinese eventually will get rid of CCP, but we don't want the great nation get split.

Dude, what? HK hasn't been part of China for years. What possible justification could you have for re-integrating it. This isn't about preventing a split, this is about undoing a split, and destroying a democracy in the process.

For someone who is anti-CCP, you don't seem to empathize with the people in HK who tasted democracy and have had it ripped away.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#416

Post by bryanrasmussen »

tablespoon wrote: post #352
ranger207 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wargames are designed to be lost. It's not as useful to say "welp we stomped all over them" as it is to push the forces being tested further and further until they break, then fixing or compensating where it broke and pushing even further. Wargames aren't constrained by reality, and the game's opposing force may be more powerful than in reality. Just hearing that the US lost a wargame doesn't mean anything without kn…

> Wargames are designed to be lost. It's not as useful to say "welp we stomped all over them" as it is to push the forces being tested further and further until they break, then fixing or compensating where it broke and pushing even further. Wasn't there a pretty famous case, in a wargame meant to simulate conflict with Iran, where the red team general actually played to win but the game leaders reset things with new…

>Wasn't there a pretty famous case, in a wargame meant to simulate conflict with Iran, where the red team general actually played to win but the game leaders reset things with new constraints that played to US advantages?

yes, wargames are designed to be difficult to win, unless political expediency interferes with the design.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#417

Post by qwerty456127 »

kunagi7 wrote: post #9

The Chinese Government is speeding up their efforts to swallow Hong Kong and Macau into the Mainland. Closing the media outlets, museums, websites that speak against them. And a few key people get abducted here and there to scare more people and force them to accept the Beijing Regime. But... The people from Hong Kong still demonstrates and tries to fight for their lost rights.

They don't only want to close those who speak against them. Actually everyone they don't have full control of. AFAIK the mainland China is a separate world with its own different Internet and business ecosystem and little interaction between it and the rest of the world allowed.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#418

Post by dirtyid »

dforrestwilson wrote: post #285
dirtyid wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you can also examine recent US defense proposals / thinktank wonks gaming out indo pacific strategy, i.e. AGILE deployment in Japan, hosting IRBMs in region. The overwhelming pattern and prevailing consensus for those that follow the space is that despite proposals being aspirational / borderline geopolitical fantasy, US blobs aren't even pretending to pursue strategies that explicitly defend TW anymore. Fo…

Japan would care a lot if China made a move on Taiwan. They recently strengthened defense ties there. Wouldn't just be the U.S. Oh, and two of the above mentioned countries have real blue water navies that can go anywhere to cut supply lines like say, oil from the Middle East. One does not.

JP/TW had "security" dialogue that basically amounted to JP begging Taiwan for semi fabs. JP isn't going to do shit because like US they're even less capable of defending TW. JP actions has been all rhetoric. It means nothing until they commit to credible but politically expensive actions. Some notional missile force increase on Ryukyu is theatre when what's needed is massive mobilization of main islands (and put every JP civilian in harms way) outside of Okinawa as prescribed in AGILE. It's not going to happen, they can't even commit to land based Aegis Ashore ABM to save themselves from NK nukes.

>One does not.

PRC has blue water Navy that operates up to ME and has been for years. It's also signifantly larger and more capable than Japans. I suspect you need to update understanding from old Zeihan powerpoints.

With respect to US, PRC has 30 CEP ICBMs which means USNavy vessels become scrap the second they pull into port. Even nuclear carriers can't stay at sea forever, nevermind their sustainment / oilers / resupply ships will be long gone. US carrier groups will likely be one-time deployment assets. This is roughly reality now, and and even more dire in the coming years. US can sink every PLAN ship on the waters and PRC can sink every USN ship in port. Or destroy entire east Asian fab supply chain, setting back US industry/tech decades. Or bait US security commitments in Korea / Japan which compels US to send assets within 1st island chain where they are weakest, negating point of blockade outside of 1st island chain. The wank over blockading PRC via Malacca / SLOC overlooks the fact that at minimum PRC can force US to sign a hegemony suicide pact. PRC can make US lose everything even in defeat. And is willing to over TW.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#419

Post by Bayart »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #202
Bayart wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's 5000 year history Please don't give credence to nonsensical nationalist tropes. The Oracle Bone Script goes back to about 1200 BC during the Shang Dynasty, that makes about 3200 years of history. Before that it's _pre-history_. It's a bit younger than Linear B, Old Avestan and Vedic Sanskrit. So in terms of a traceable, continuous culture China is at the fourth place of so. These days I'd probably be called a "…

> It's a bit younger than Linear B, Old Avestan and Vedic Sanskrit. So in terms of a traceable, continuous culture China is at the fourth place of so. Linear B does not represent a traceable, continuous culture. Neither does Old Avestan.

How so ? There's a case to be made for Linear B because of the Greek Dark Ages, but Old Avestan ? By that same token, Oracle Bone Script also doesn't represent a traceable and continuous culture.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#420

Post by Bayart »

mthoms wrote: post #207
Bayart wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's 5000 year history Please don't give credence to nonsensical nationalist tropes. The Oracle Bone Script goes back to about 1200 BC during the Shang Dynasty, that makes about 3200 years of history. Before that it's _pre-history_. It's a bit younger than Linear B, Old Avestan and Vedic Sanskrit. So in terms of a traceable, continuous culture China is at the fourth place of so. These days I'd probably be called a "…

That was the most pedantic correction I've ever seen on HN in a while :-). I think the parent was just speaking loosely rather than spreading "nonsensical nationalistic tropes". Take it easy. Does being 5000 or 3200 years old really change the discussion to anyone but historians?

It's certainly changes the discussion to the CCP ! They intend to cement the notion that China is the oldest, greatest, most venerable nation their is. Truth be damned.
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