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China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

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Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#411

Post by joelbluminator »

thu2111 wrote: post #409
joelbluminator wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/holoc... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Vrba So definitely were known before liberation. As for the date, could be that I was wrong and it was 1943, and not 1941 (However, as soon as 1941-2 some 1.5 million Russian jews were shot to death, was there zero evidence of that?) It's also possible some governments had evidence but refused to believe such monstros…

Hmm, the article about Vrba says he escaped in April 1944 but it took months for his report to be published. Meanwhile the Soviets encountered their first concentration camp around July 1944 time as well. So it sounds like his report came out more or less concurrently with the Soviets discovering Madjanek. The page does say that there were previous reports, but one was only in Polish. The other apparently did end up…

This piece is also interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_bombing_debate So there were definitely evidence of what was going on. The allies were getting their asses kicked till U.S joined the war so I'm not sure there was much that could have been done...

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#412

Post by propagandist »

Nginx487 wrote: post #407
propagandist wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree wholeheartedly. Let’s discuss this along with lifting collective sanctions imposed on Cuba, Iran, Syria, and Venezuela. That is a form of collective punishments that starves civilians. I’m very cynical about the outrage re: those “re-education” sites. Not because they’re benign but because nobody bats an eye when America commits similarly heinous acts. It seems like a convenient deflection tactic.

Nope. Ban on hi-tech products and weapons do not affect starving civilians in any way, this is solely responsibility of ruling dictators. Exactly like it happened in Russia, in response of banning hi-tech from exporting to Russia, our authorities imposed ban on importing food and medications.

I’m not sure how to reason with someone who does 0 research. Look into what areas of the economy are sanctioned first, and then come here to disagree with me.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#413

Post by apta »

bitxbit wrote: post #38

It’s disgusting that nothing will be done because everyone is addicted to cheap goods from China. If we cannot break free from current economic arrangements even after the pandemic, we will never be able to do so.

It's sad, but we should start somewhere: www.reddit.com/r/avoidchineseproducts/

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#414

Post by coldtea »

hajile wrote: post #378
coldtea wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just another case of made-up US exceptionalism ("oh, how braver we are than those others for saying no to China now"), after the US corporations/market had profited from cheap Chinese manufacturing and sweat shop labor for years, and takes the high moral ground only now that "coincidentally" has an economic problem and wants to stop all the outsourcing. Meanwhile, all this talk of "global moral cowardice" was hard…

Did we read the same article? > A 2017 study in the British Medical Journal described "the rigging of the 1999 Unicef survey" as "an especially masterful fraud".[12] The three comprehensive surveys conducted since 2003 all found that the child mortality rate in the period 1995-2000 was approximately 40 per 1000, which means that there was no major rise in child mortality in Iraq after sanctions were implemented. You…

>Did we read the same article?

No, I actually didn't fully read the paragraph I linked to, thought it would mention the same numbers I've read before from several sources. I now see that the entry in Wikipedia actually includes some later dispute on those numbers though!

Still, there's a big toll from 4+ invasions, bombings, destabilizing countries stable for decades, etc., even if the 500K number mentioned for Iraq at that period doesn't stand up. For example it's not disputable that we have had millions of regugees from these regions as a result of the invasions...

>If you really want someone to blame, blame France, England, and Russia for arbitrarily drawing up countries after WW1"

Oh, I absolute blame those. But also anyone later who meddled, grabbed resources and exerted influence (strategic, trade, etc.) while paying lip service to "democracy" (the modern "white man's burden").

>without considering that people in the middle east wouldn't overcome their nationalism and racism which would lead to continuous conflict.*

I'd not say it happened "without econsidering". Rather "capitalizing exactly on that this will happen, and making sure with subsequent meddling and stiring that it will". The classic old British Empire "divide and conquer" modus operandi...

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#415

Post by coldtea »

microcolonel wrote: post #258
coldtea wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just another case of made-up US exceptionalism ("oh, how braver we are than those others for saying no to China now"), after the US corporations/market had profited from cheap Chinese manufacturing and sweat shop labor for years, and takes the high moral ground only now that "coincidentally" has an economic problem and wants to stop all the outsourcing. Meanwhile, all this talk of "global moral cowardice" was hard…

For example, Australia won't even withdraw special trade relations with Hong Kong now that the PRC is compromising the whole point of that status, the U.S. went ahead and did so.

Isn't that just because the U.S. has strategic and economic interests to put pressure on China (and otherwise could not give less ducks about democracy, morals, or Hong Kongers for that matter.

Especially since they don't have and historically didn't also have any problem with all kinds of dictators, right wing governments, etc. (from Suharto and Pinochet to UAE), as long as they were allies.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#416

Post by microcolonel »

coldtea wrote: post #415
microcolonel wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, Australia won't even withdraw special trade relations with Hong Kong now that the PRC is compromising the whole point of that status, the U.S. went ahead and did so.

Isn't that just because the U.S. has strategic and economic interests to put pressure on China (and otherwise could not give less ducks about democracy, morals, or Hong Kongers for that matter. Especially since they don't have and historically didn't also have any problem with all kinds of dictators, right wing governments, etc. (from Suharto and Pinochet to UAE), as long as they were allies.

The thing about the Hong Kong annexation is that the same thing that threatens Americans' moral preferences is also bad for business; it doesn't actually matter why you value Hong Kong's legal sovereignty, because the stakes are the same.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#417

Post by me_me_me »

treeman79 wrote: post #76
me_me_me wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> core tenant of communism Yes, that is why Lennin and especially Stalin were made into godlike figures. Mao is a prophet/father of the china also painted as infallible. And lets not forget about North Korea... ummm Peoples Republic that is Celestial Dictatorship. Marx was rolling in his grave when 'communism' was implemented across the world's nations.

Easier to take Absolute control if you promise equality for everyone. Some people are just more equal than others. - Animal Farm

You know that animal farm ends with comparison of soviet communism and modern capitalism.

“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

Funnily that line was cut out of american version... go figure.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#418

Post by gigatexal »

harpiaharpyja wrote: post #90
gigatexal wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. So China’s so big of an existential threat that you’ll let one of the worst presidents in history have another 4 years to continue screwing the country? Trump’s going to win again smh.

Having to fall back into unsubstantiated hyperbole like "worst president in history" and "screwing the country" probably doesn't help to win anyone over.

Trump's character flaws, faux status as a successful business mogul, a conservative, a champion of the Republican party, a racist, ... is left to the reader. (A hilariously easy task with some time and Google.)

What I wanted to address was the single issue of China garnering votes for Trump's second term. JFK is famously quoted for this: "...Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country,..."[1] America didn't become the world's top economy by being anti-globalist. We manufactered things, we exported things, we embraced international trade. We pioneered the transistor, created silicon valley, and created an environment where enterprising foreign nationals could come with their ambitions and build companies that ultimately would employ Americans, enrich stock holders, and create jobs. But ... now Trump and his administration is slowly closing the US off from immigration of persons and businesses and ideas. How many of the worlds future Fortune 100 companies are in the minds of PHd students or researchers that given this new visa situation will think twice about incorporating in the USA? Just look at the businesses created in the first and second tech booms and ask how many founders were foreigners.

Regarding the foreign reserve currency and Chinese military might. I guess I am more bullish on that not changing anytime soon. The US spends far too much in propping up the military industrial complex that it would take generations of incompetent presidents to ruin that lead. That being said it's very disconerting for Trump to be so cozy with our enemies, to openly praise North Korea (could be a policy of appeasement or just keeping one's enemies closer than his freinds... i dunno) and to give exuberant praise to Putin, etc., and to disregard intel from his own agencies, to badmouth the FBI and the CIA, to bilk the government into paying himself by staying at his own properties, golfing practically his whole presidency, praising white supremacists, ... all of this is forgiven because he's "hard on China". HAH!

To think that President Xi isn't 10 moves ahead is to be truly ignorant.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#419

Post by jialutu »

sol_invictus wrote: post #182
borg_ wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or, OP simply does not want their true identity to be labeled as "pro-China" and created this specific account given how toxic, biased and hostile HN comment section has become wrt "pro-China" sentiment, by people like yourself. Counter the argument for what it is if you wish but going after OP's account history is not called for.

There is nothing 'toxic' about calling out astroturfing where it is blatant, especially since there is no way to flag individual accounts on this platform.

"Waa waa, someone does not ascribe to my beliefs so they must be a paid troll!" Do you need a tissue mate?

The reason I don't make many comments is because 1, I am too lazy and 2, HN is pretty toxic in that if you write anything adversarial to HN's party line of anti-corporates, anti-police, anti-China or anti-something else, even when what's written is true, then you get downvoted into oblivion.

Also, this is a pretty terrible platform for discussions (tbh, I am not sure if there is one that is good for discussions). No notifications, no auto-refreshes, in all honesty if I really paid attention to the discussions here, I should probably be questioning my life.

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