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Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#411

Post by Nomentatus »

jahvo wrote: post #215
ryanobjc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

>To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might rock the boat. To these types, those who make a fuss are bothersome and ignorant at best, and probably dangerous and destructive too." Just being a conservative or a right-winger is both…

The usual phrase is "psychologically conservative." Sticking to the comfort zone. Therefore, a psychological conservative who grows up in a politically Marxist household will remain Marxist, and of the same stripe of Marxist. They'll never consider political Conservatism seriously as a worldview, or switch to that.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#412

Post by c2h5oh »

jedberg wrote: post #281
c2h5oh wrote: post #254

Average house in Toronto or Vancouver costs about the same as in the valley. Senior devs rarely make more then 100-110k USD. No wonder people, myself included, at least consider moving.

> Average house in Toronto or Vancouver costs about the same as in the valley. I don't think that's accurate. I was just in Vancouver last week and took a peek at the real estate listings. I could sell my 1734 sq ft house here in the Bay Area, get one twice as big in Vancouver, and still have quite a lot left over.

You'd have hard time finding an acceptable house that size for less than 1.5M USD in Toronto. Vancouver is slightly higher.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#413

Post by refurb »

neilk wrote: post #306
_xzxj wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of…

Canadian here who worked in the Valley for ~7 years, and currently works for a US-based startup remotely. You're absolutely right that the culture of respecting changemakers is not as present in Canada. But the SFBA is the world leader here. There probably isn't any place on earth that's more optimistic about innovators. I don't think this is a culture thing, exactly. It's just that everyone who became rich in the SF…

stifle innovation in favor of incumbents, and put regulatory barriers in the way for entrepreneurs

As a Canadian I'm a little shock by this description. Stifle innovation? The gov't ran the phone system in Alberta until the 1990's (or so). There was no innovation because it was determined "that's the job for the gov't, not private businesses" and they did it terribly.

Look at the cellular phone networks in Canada. Nothing changes unless the CRTC OKs it. Those companies would be eaten for lunch without the gov't backing them.

My own experience in the US is that things change much quicker when it comes to innovation. Are their stupid regulations? Sure, but they seem to change pretty quickly down here when people get pissed.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#414

Post by pm90 »

moorhosj wrote: post #323
jgh wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike Canada, California benefits from a pool of ~290 million other people who self-select to move there with 0 barriers other than having a few dollars to buy a gray hound ticket.

Is the cost of housing a barrier?

If you're asking this seriously... yes it is a barrier, but not as great as Immigration/moving to a completely new country.

Which is not to discount California's tremendous housing crunch. I am merely pointing out that its a much lower risk for a young single US citizen to just move to CA, try it out for a few months, if they can't get a job or make it, then just drive back. It is much harder for people from outside the country to do the same.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#415

Post by lopmotr »

tomc1985 wrote: post #406
ryanobjc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

My experience in here in the 'States exemplifies your comments "that I am surrounded by people who think like I do and value the things I value". But this does not lead to healthy social communities. We as a country are drunk on the idea that our friends are people who think and act like us, when this is only part -- IMO, a very small part -- of group chemistry that this outlook overlooks. Group interaction is so muc…

I think the appropriate term here is "diversity of thought" which is sort of opposite to the unqualified "diversity" which usually means diversity of genetics and uniformity of thought.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#416

Post by pm90 »

akshat_h wrote: post #351
whack wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the current H1B lottery, even someone with excellent credentials will most likely be denied the visa, purely due to random chance. Also, even if you get the H1B and apply for Permanent Residency, the wait time can be obscenely long depending on where you were born. If you were born in China, you'll have to wait for 6+ years. If you were born in India, you'll have to wait for 12+ years. Ironically enough, if you…

To add to the above post. For people born in India the wait time is estimated to be more than 20+ years, since the queue is going to get longer and longer, and there are only fixed number of people who leave the queue every year. Unless you are on EB1, it is better to basically forget about getting a green card. Talking to my friends from India, the options are: 1) Do a PhD and hope to produce original, well cited re…

The legal immigration system is long overdue for some reform. Especially w.r.t the long waiting times for people from India. I expect it to change in the next couple of years but who knows.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#417

Post by pm90 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #366
pm90 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's what they usually say, but they also usually oppose policy which would make legal immigration easier and relieve pressure that creates illegal immigration, and frequently support policies to restrict legal immigration. And it's not just 10% of conservatives supporting this kind of policy. Look, I'm a liberal but I will call out the Dems when I need to. Most of the reforms to legal immigration have always bee…

> Democrats haven't proposed a bill which purely targets legal immigration. Perhaps, but conservatives have frequently put forward bills (or, when in the executive, instituted executive policy without Congressional action) that further restrict currently-legal immigration and non-immigrant entry and privileges, which is more significant sign of opposition to legal immigration than merely voting against expansions to…

I agree with what you're saying and I don't think what I say next matters as much because the outcomes seem similar. But I think it needs to be pointed out.

Maybe it is just posturing and lies, but the conservative viewpoint has been to have a merit-based system for permitting immigrants into the country, as opposed to immigration based on familial relations. Every country gets to decide what kind of people that they want coming into their country and I think its perfectly fine for conservatives to feel that way (it is a different matter that I don't agree with that idea). My perception (again, which might be wrong) is that that is essentially what Republicans have been getting at for the past couple of decades (perhaps more).

Now, that being said: these are the same folks who were about Family Values, Fiscal Purity etc. So, like I said before, I don't think the arguments are being made in good faith. But the argument does have merit.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#418

Post by ng12 »

pm90 wrote: post #416
akshat_h wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to the above post. For people born in India the wait time is estimated to be more than 20+ years, since the queue is going to get longer and longer, and there are only fixed number of people who leave the queue every year. Unless you are on EB1, it is better to basically forget about getting a green card. Talking to my friends from India, the options are: 1) Do a PhD and hope to produce original, well cited re…

The legal immigration system is long overdue for some reform. Especially w.r.t the long waiting times for people from India. I expect it to change in the next couple of years but who knows.

Why? Especially when you can buy foreign skilled labor (H-1B) with no long-term obligation.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#419

Post by vram22 »

nostrademons wrote: post #394
neilk wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People say that a lot but I'm not so sure. Half of my American friends had to move to the SFBA not just for a job, but because nobody understood them back home, or they'd be literally persecuted for being who they were. And these aren't always tiny rural towns. The coastal cities embrace some kinds of individualism for sure.

And similarly - the reason people don't move back (despite the high housing costs) is usually fear of persecution, or a perceived inability to be their true self, or a perception that they'll be a pariah without any true friends. That's also why when people do tend to leave the Bay Area, they go to other liberal areas like Seattle/Portland/Boulder/Asheville/Austin/Boston/NYC, even though those areas also have housing…

>That's also why when people do tend to leave the Bay Area, they go to other liberal areas like Seattle/Portland/Boulder/Asheville/Austin/Boston/NYC, even though those areas also have housing crises and the cost of living is rapidly approaching the Bay

Wow, that's true for all those cities? I might have guessed it for Boston and NYC, maybe Seattle too, not so much about the others. But don't know a lot about this area.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#420

Post by ng12 »

nerfhammer wrote: post #377
ng12 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump's actual rhetoric revolves around tougher controls on immigrant backgrounds and cracking down on those who immigrate illegally, neither of which policies are any less strict in Canada.

and people from Iran or Syria?

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/05/01/iranian-immigrat...

Maybe Trump's mistake is being vocal about it while Canada maintains plausible deniability.

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