Some reasons to stay in Canada: * Your spouse will not be able to work on your visa (TN / H1B) * "Full insurance coverage" does not mean for your spouse. Be prepared to pay for a delivery if you want to have children * Your child will have much higher post-secondary student loans * Crime, Firearms et al. IMO coming to SV is a young/single person's game (hence braindrain from grads). But a bad idea for established peo…
Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley
301–310 of 715 posts
Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Burning through investors money in search of profitable ideas" has nothing to do with it. There's this huge misconception on HN about the size of the venture capital market. Start-ups are a miniscule portion of the tech economy by any measure of value. The reason engineers make so much money in the US is the public market giants like Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google, etc. The combined market cap of FAANG is…
FAANG can only hire so many engineers, the positions tend to be highly competitive, they pull them from all over the world, and the drop-off in compensation at the next level is pretty significant.
Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of…
The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…
Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley
#304Some reasons to stay in Canada: * Your spouse will not be able to work on your visa (TN / H1B) * "Full insurance coverage" does not mean for your spouse. Be prepared to pay for a delivery if you want to have children * Your child will have much higher post-secondary student loans * Crime, Firearms et al. IMO coming to SV is a young/single person's game (hence braindrain from grads). But a bad idea for established peo…
I disagree. The income disparity increases at senior levels. I hit a ceiling in Toronto where I hard trouble growing my career and making more than $180,000 CAD TC. Moving to silicon valley my experience was able to fetch over $500,00 USD TC. Sure it meant that for a year and a half my spouse can't work but that's not a big deal.
Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't say they were paying "good" wages, but that they are paying market wages. The argument that Canadian software salaries aren't a market, but rather a stubborn choice by companies not to do the right thing, is curiously magical. The question is, what would change the situation? Not some change of heart by companies to finally do the right thing, or come to their senses about what their self-interest really is.…
> The question is, what would change the situation? Not some change of heart by companies to finally do the right thing, or come to their senses about what their self-interest really is. Those aren't real things. This is a horrible false dichotomy. It takes time for companies to decide on and implement changes. Do you think that companies magically always make optimal decisions at all times? You claim that other peop…
For example, I didn't suggest that the government should do such a thing. It's a hideous idea, besides being an obvious legal and political impossibility. What I said was that if they did, it might affect the software salary market in Canada, in contrast to other things people commonly bring up, which seem oddly imaginary.
Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley
#306Canada is in a really tough spot here. I've always admired Canadian culture/values, and in the abstract, would love to live in Canada one day. However, as a Software developer, the compensation and opportunities that one can find in SF/Seattle/NYC dwarf anything in Canada. Until this changes, Canada is always going to lose its brightest engineers, which will in turn worsen the problem even further. Some solutions I c…
Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of…
You're absolutely right that the culture of respecting changemakers is not as present in Canada. But the SFBA is the world leader here. There probably isn't any place on earth that's more optimistic about innovators.
I don't think this is a culture thing, exactly. It's just that everyone who became rich in the SFBA did so by exploiting trends or innovating – since like, the 1890s. And the USA plowed zillions of dollars into the tech ecosystem in the Bay Area since World War II. Once you have that tech investor class, culture bends a lot towards their way of thinking.
Investors in Canada just don't have that kind of money to play with. Or, they made their money in an old-school industry, like resource extraction, and they flip out at the risk levels in tech startups.
In terms of prevailing national norms, I'd say Canada is slightly more change-friendly than the USA. Think about all the ways that the USA tries to kill immigration, stifle innovation in favor of incumbents, and put regulatory barriers in the way for entrepreneurs.
In contrast, Canada has lots of official policies to support tech entrepreneurship and skilled immigration. Plus, socialized medicine really does make it easier to be an entrepreneur. Politically and culturally, Canada isn't that into retro stuff, or trying to revive earlier, more conservative eras. People think their best days are ahead of them.
It's true that the people in Canada are not super interested in overturning anyone's applecart, for its own sake or just to get rich. That's not as respected here. People are more likely to be interested in innovations that improve the general social welfare. But maybe that's not such a bad thing.
Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the conservativeness of Canada is a bit different from conservatives in the USA though. It's less focused on "morality" and religion and more an aversion to change. Which is why I think it's possible for the culture to be simultaneously conservative and OK with things like gay marriage and legal cannabis, neither of which would be conservative positions in the US.
We're insulated because provinces cannot pass laws on gay marriage or legal cannabis. Canadian federalism is incomplete in that regard. However Ford could pull a Mike Harris and start firing nurses. His economic plan promises a balanced budget with no job cuts and no tax rises. He claims there are efficiencies to be had whatever that means.
As of legal cannabis, it is better when it is federal. In US you will go to jail in one state, and can be just fine in another.
Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley
#308Canada is in a really tough spot here. I've always admired Canadian culture/values, and in the abstract, would love to live in Canada one day. However, as a Software developer, the compensation and opportunities that one can find in SF/Seattle/NYC dwarf anything in Canada. Until this changes, Canada is always going to lose its brightest engineers, which will in turn worsen the problem even further. Some solutions I c…
> who are hesitant to move to USA because of immigration restrictions. Where does this perception come from? Canada has stricter immigration rules than the USA. EDIT: Specifically what I'm talking about is that Canada only allows in immigrants who are economically desirable and speak English or French.
difficult to plan for the future where this is a possibility
Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
So there is very little understanding from others how I could not be satisfied with pay. Have you calculated what salary you'd have to earn to afford an equivalent configuration of {house, cars, debt, schools, commute, sanity} in the BA? That may be where the lack of understanding comes from.
I would think the experienced engineer contemplating moving their entire family to another country has done the basic math. I really do get tired of this "but the cost of living!" argument being tossed out. People get it. It's not complicated.
Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
I pay $1750 CAD for a 1 bed + den near to the subway line. It's around 700 sqft.
Here's a CL search just to show you what you could get on the Peninsula. It's not the city, but it's close enough. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/pen/apa?sort=priceasc&nh... The "near downtown San Mateo" listing is a 5-minute bike ride from Caltrain, 600sq ft and US$1785. So about CAD$600 more than your rent.
A friend has a one bedroom in San Mateo in the sub $3000 range. The building is very old, no amenities or views to speak of, and not even in-suite laundry.