Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#371

Post by rconti » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:27 PM UTC

privacypoller wrote: post #80

iodiniemetra wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, it's the weather. Half the year is rendered unusable for unplanned adventure. More than once here, on a rainy winter day, I've gotten in my car and driven east until I hit the hills, found a park, and enjoyed a sunny afternoon.

When I looked at relocating from Vancouver/Victoria a decade ago, my wife's #1 requirement was "it has to have 4 seasons". I love the mountains so that means some winter/snow. Winters out east are not a lot of fun and the lower mainland/PNW is just so depressing. Tech + Opportunities + Seasons = a pretty short list (especially in Canada)

So... what fit the bill?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#372

Post by chrisseaton » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #159

chrisseaton wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not go to Alumni Affairs at these schools and get contact lists? Because of data protection laws?

Alumni Affairs conducts surveys of their members all the time. The researchers could have approached them, had alumni affairs send out a survey to particular students and received a much better representation of the student population.

You said why not 'get a contact list', not 'ask them to contact people for you'.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#373

Post by christocracy » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #168

ryanobjc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

A lot of Canada's GDP seems to come from mining, and some of it seems to come from places that could be disrupted by technology or ecological concerns, so I'm not surprised at resistance to disruption.

Real-estate (in addition to associated construction) is bigger for than mining and oil:

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/g...

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#374

Post by rconti » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:29 PM UTC

iodiniemetra wrote: post #33

mi100hael wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I follow what you're getting at, but don't you think a large part of that is due to your own attitudes/perception? It's not like there aren't people in Canada who are doing exciting things like sky diving, let alone driving stick.

First of all, it's the weather. Half the year is rendered unusable for unplanned adventure. More than once here, on a rainy winter day, I've gotten in my car and driven east until I hit the hills, found a park, and enjoyed a sunny afternoon.

I grew up in the PNW, and I absolutely agree, I hated nothing more than feeling like I could never do anything outside because you can't count on the weather being acceptable unless it's between July 5 and September 5. It's not that it's bad that often, it's just so unreliable.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#375

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:30 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #369

whack wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the current H1B lottery, even someone with excellent credentials will most likely be denied the visa, purely due to random chance. Also, even if you get the H1B and apply for Permanent Residency, the wait time can be obscenely long depending on where you were born. If you were born in China, you'll have to wait for 6+ years. If you were born in India, you'll have to wait for 12+ years. Ironically enough, if you…

H1B isn’t an immigrant visa, so of course the wait times are long — it’s the wrong visa for immigration.

> H1B isn’t an immigrant visa, so of course the wait times are long — it’s the wrong visa for immigration.

The wait times referenced are the wait times for an immigrant visa, whether you are applying for it as an already-resident H-1B holder (as permitted by it's dual-intent nature) or as someone who is not yet resident in the US.

The wait times have nothing to do with the H-1B not being an immigrant visa.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#376

Post by briandear » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #293

dragonwriter wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the groupthink is that the USA is hostile to immigrants. Which doesn't explain all the immigrants (legal and otherwise). I don't know what groupthink you are talking about, but there is a wife perception that the US has recently become hostile toward immigrants. Which is reflected not only in fuzzy attitudes, but concrete policy, and it does explain changes in immigration, both legal and otherwise. > There's al…

> That's what they usually say, but they also usually oppose policy which would make legal immigration easier and relieve pressure that creates illegal immigration, and frequently support policies to restrict legal immigration. And it's not just 10% of conservatives supporting this kind of policy. Look, I'm a liberal but I will call out the Dems when I need to. Most of the reforms to legal immigration have always bee…

Why is this being downvoted? It’s a valid point. For being so “open minded” and “innovative,” it seems like there is a lot of closed-mindedness here.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#377

Post by nerfhammer » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:34 PM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #320

nerfhammer wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump decides to excite his base and draw attention to himself by threatening to or actually banning immigrants from your country this week difficult to plan for the future where this is a possibility

Trump's actual rhetoric revolves around tougher controls on immigrant backgrounds and cracking down on those who immigrate illegally, neither of which policies are any less strict in Canada.

and people from Iran or Syria?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#378

Post by rconti » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:35 PM UTC

_mhyx wrote: post #68

jessriedel wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think something even stronger would be true if you asked about non-CA US states. Why would Canada, at 1/10th the US population, have more of an independent tech locus than does Texas (which has a population comparable to Canada)? Is this just a difference of nations re-distributing wealth internally but not between nations?

Austin is a huge tech town, and rapidly growing. I get a lot of recruiter emails to go there. Same with KC, but to a lessor extent. I was just in Montreal - the difference in prices with the US was staggering. You forget how wealthy we are, sometimes, even compared to the rest of the developed world. (Had an incredible French meal with 2 bottles of wine over 3 hours and it came out to ~$90 a head American)

I'm not clear what you're saying here, possibly because I don't often have 3 hour French meals. $90 sounds neither outlandishly expensive for a fine meal, nor cheap.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#379

Post by auchenberg » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:36 PM UTC

Working for Microsoft, and moved to Seattle, WA last year, after having lived in Vancouver, BC for about 1.5 year.

I can confirm this trend for several reasons:

1) The pay gap is real. Many get about a 40% pay increase by moving 3 hours down south. It's significant.

2) Taxes are aprox 10% lower in Seattle. Makes a difference too.

3) Rent-net-pay-ratio is about the same for Vancouver/Seattle

4) For a tech worker the health care is both places privately insured and the same.

Personally, I miss Vancouver. The city is awesome, and life quality is better, but financially it's simply not attractive enough.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#380

Post by briandear » Fri, May 04, 2018, 10:39 PM UTC

fusiongyro wrote: post #251

r-s wrote: post #166

Canadian tech worker here. Base salary is 120k CAD in Calgary which is far above market rate but I am educated, experienced etc. That is 93k USD. I am looking to move to the USA because of higher salaries, but I am not 22 years old anymore and moving a family (with 2 earners) is no easy task. It falls on deaf ears though, 120k CAD is a good income, I can afford a house, cars, no debts etc so there is very little unde…

Get ready to spend a good deal of the difference in pay on healthcare.

My insurance costs me personally about $250 per month covering a family of 6. My employer pays the rest — AND I make 2-3x a Canadian salary excluding stock.

The health argument is completely invalid when it comes to Canadian salary comparisons because the Canadian employer doesn’t have to pay health insurance costs — so they should have more money available for salaries.