Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#21

Post by pmalynin » Fri, May 04, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

2RTZZSro wrote: post #15

pmalynin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in this situation, that is I'm graduating next year and I already have a job lined up in SV. Personally, there just isn't anything for me here. I hate winter (depression for 7 months, anyone?). Everything is far. Entertainment is sparse unless it involves 1) hockey or 2) drinking, or both. Pay is shit. Prices are shit. Selection is shit (have you tried using Amazon CA?). Food, at least where I am, is good but no…

Which city in Canada are you studying in? Have you spent some time in SV?

Edmonton.

I worked in MTV for 4 months, 4 months in Seattle, and I'm leaving on Monday to SV again for the summer.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#22

Post by z0r » Fri, May 04, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

Want to stem the tide? Pay more. I miss Toronto but I won't go back unless my visa situation falls apart.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#23

Post by _zachs » Fri, May 04, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

Only solution: take a pay cut as a CEO and offer a higher salary to prospective engineers. Don't want to do that? Don't complain.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#24

Post by mi100hael » Fri, May 04, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

huangc10 wrote: post #9

Canadian working in SV for almost a decade here. Yeah sure, it was about the technology, job, but a lot of it has to do with lifestyle (which the article fails to mention, and can't really be measured). Since I've been here, I've learned how to drive stick shift, sky dived, and been on way more adventure than what I could have if I stayed at home. It's about adventure and taking a risk. Not necessarily about the mone…

I follow what you're getting at, but don't you think a large part of that is due to your own attitudes/perception? It's not like there aren't people in Canada who are doing exciting things like sky diving, let alone driving stick.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#25

Post by martinshen » Fri, May 04, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

I recently moved back from the US (SF then Detroit) to Toronto to start a new startup. I was shocked when some entrepreneurs were upset that an Amazon HQ2 may raise the prices on engineering talent in Toronto. That may be true but is extremely short-sighted (and probably means those startups aren't VC-ambitious). The Toronto area really needs Amazon, Google or another large tech company to create a signifiant engineering presence and foster a deep engineering pool.

I believe that the SFBay has nearly 500K Canadians. That's crazy.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#26

Post by jessriedel » Fri, May 04, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

paulashbourne wrote: post #2

65.93% of Software Engineering graduates end up working in the US after graduation. Not a great statistic for Canada's tech industry.

I think something even stronger would be true if you asked about non-CA US states. Why would Canada, at 1/10th the US population, have more of an independent tech locus than does Texas (which has a population comparable to Canada)? Is this just a difference of nations re-distributing wealth internally but not between nations?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#27

Post by bacongobbler » Fri, May 04, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

m-p-3 wrote: post #17

Kelbit wrote: post #13

If Canadian companies were willing to offer a competitive salary, maybe Canadian grads would stay. It doesn't even have to be 1:1 with the US, even 75% would be nice. As it is, there is little incentive to stay here. I know a new grad who was faced with the choice of staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting, or heading to the US where he had a job offer with one of the big five for $120k USD plus signi…

I'm wondering how that salary difference really is when comparing the cost of living of many Canadian cities vs Silicon Valley, the taxation rate and the social services provided (universal healthcare, etc).

The cost of living in the major Canadian tech cities (Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa) is lower than Silicon Valley, sure, but Vancouver is still one of the most expensive cities to live in the world. The drop in salary is way too low when compared to the cost of living.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#28

Post by huangc10 » Fri, May 04, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

2RTZZSro wrote: post #11

huangc10 wrote: post #9

Canadian working in SV for almost a decade here. Yeah sure, it was about the technology, job, but a lot of it has to do with lifestyle (which the article fails to mention, and can't really be measured). Since I've been here, I've learned how to drive stick shift, sky dived, and been on way more adventure than what I could have if I stayed at home. It's about adventure and taking a risk. Not necessarily about the mone…

Was it the opportunities that are available in SV that make it possible to go on these adventures or something else like increased cash flow combined with more free time? Despite the higher salaries how are you coping with the high cost of living and high tax rates?

Right, it's a bit of everything. Kind of like "the world is your oyster" feeling. I'm not speaking for everyone, but when I was in my early 20s, I think as long as cash was a net positive (ie. have savings), it was enough so didn't think too much about cost of living and high tax rates. Ofc, we're talking about late 2000s, so living was a bit cheaper.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#29

Post by Eridrus » Fri, May 04, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

m-p-3 wrote: post #17

Kelbit wrote: post #13

If Canadian companies were willing to offer a competitive salary, maybe Canadian grads would stay. It doesn't even have to be 1:1 with the US, even 75% would be nice. As it is, there is little incentive to stay here. I know a new grad who was faced with the choice of staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting, or heading to the US where he had a job offer with one of the big five for $120k USD plus signi…

I'm wondering how that salary difference really is when comparing the cost of living of many Canadian cities vs Silicon Valley, the taxation rate and the social services provided (universal healthcare, etc).

> the social services provided (universal healthcare, etc).

I think the individual value of most social services is pretty low to people in this demographic (recent graduates taking software jobs in the US).

Sure, universal healthcare is great, but US companies also provide health insurance.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#30

Post by lainga » Fri, May 04, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

Question - now that Amazon is bringing "3000 jobs" to Vancouver, are they going to be paying wages consistent with their US employees, or with (or just above) the local market rate?