Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

ev-edition.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 761 posts

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#401

Post by 015a »

wilg wrote: post #280
dagmx wrote: post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

Market share isn't a good metric for a company that started out with 100% market share and therefore has nowhere to go but down. I think Tesla will continue to be successful selling cars and grow the number of cars they sell at a high rate. Also, it sounds like this move is a really good incentive from a product perspective. If there really are a significant of people who only chose Tesla because of Superchargers, th…

I legit believe that many people in these threads haven't learned that the Model Y is the best selling vehicle in North America during 2023-Q1 [1]. Not just best selling EV, or best selling crossover; best selling vehicle. It outsold the Corrola, at half the price.

This is not a situation of "oh Tesla will continue to do well, they'll sell cars" or "what's their moat? they're finished": They are #1. Dozens of competitors have hit the market over the past five years. They are outselling all of them, at substantially higher price points (fed tax credit has something to do with it versus gas cars for Q1 here, but it impacts all EVs reasonably equally).

If there's something on the horizon which will change that, I need that explained to me because I'm not seeing it. That Fords and GMs will also get supercharging? Anyone who says "the supercharger network significantly influences purchases toward Tesla" doesn't own an EV; armchair commentators. To some small degree; sure. But the biggest influence, bar none, is: "My friend has one." That's it. Few spend significant time driving a Mach-E and think "everything about this screams I need it". But that is a not a-typical experience for Tesla vehicles, because so much about it is so far ahead of traditional cars, and even modern competing EVs.

So much about it is also pretty far behind, like quality control. But that doesn't come through when you're driving a friend's perfectly functional car. And it certainly hasn't hurt Tesla up to this point.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/26/23738581/tesla-model-y-ev...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#402

Post by chaostheory »

dahfizz wrote: post #150
dagmx wrote: post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. The cars themselves are quickly being beaten out by the larger players.

Tesla also bought solar city a while back

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#403

Post by 01100011 »

ActorNightly wrote: post #317
sakopov wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They currently don't seem to be winning, but that does appear to be their main gamble. So who do you think is winning it?

In terms of usefulness, right now, not Tesla. At some point there will be a research breakthrough in ML with models that can extrapolate physics which is the current thing that is missing from self driving being actually good. At that point Tesla is going to be the winner without a doubt because they have the hardware and data to train en masse and deploy to cars.

This assumes their HW is capable enough to run that algorithm. This remains to be seen.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#404

Post by mikestew »

hinkley wrote: post #309
agloe_dreams wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also one other detail: There's a hell of a lot more money in the car 'fuel' industry than the car making business. R&D costs are way lower, you don't need that many employees, and you can always charge these third party automakers more. Tesla is going to make bank off these adopters.

The latest rounds of gas convenience stores have gotten more square footage than earlier generations. I suspect they are anticipating indoor seating for charging customers at some point. I’ve also started seeing joint ventures where it’s a proper coffee stand or in one case I can think of an A&W root beer. Gas stations tend to be physically separated from pastimes (what Burger King owner wants diesel fumes in their s…

In poking around with PlugShare in the Seattle area, I'm seeing Arco gas/convenience stores with chargers. "EV Connect" is what is marked on the map. One is near the office that I don't go to anymore, but next time I'm that way to pick up hardware, I'll check it out. IIRC, there's no real room to build out the lot, but maybe the store could expand.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#405

Post by unethical_ban »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #342
abc_lisper wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your commute is less than 100 miles, you have nothing to worry, if you get a proper charger at home. Owned Tesla for 3.5 years with 60 mile commute, it has been very nice.

If this is true, what is EV replacing? If my commute is less than 100 miles should I not be using train, light rail, trolley, bus, or similar public transport? The historical use for me and my family and those who has a car, for generation was "road trips", anything over 100 miles.

Where do you live?

In my current city, taking a 10 mile bus ride would take more than an hour, vs. 10 minutes in a car.

I do not live in New York.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#406

Post by MattRix »

HWR_14 wrote: post #292
MattRix wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a big fan of Tesla myself, but surely if they figure out self driving that’ll make their cars relevant for the forseeable future? On top of that they seem to be able to make cars cheaper and more quickly than most of the incumbents.

I mean, that same sentence structure justifies a lottery based retirement plan. You only have to get the numbers once after all. I haven't seen any evidence they are able to make cars more cheaply and quickly than the incumbents.

Just look up the margins on Tesla’s cars vs EVs from other manufacturers. For example, Tesla’s net profit margin in Q1 2023 was 13%, meanwhile Ford is hoping that their electric vehicle division can get to 8% net profit by 2026 (they currently lose money on them)

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#408

Post by marsokod »

vidarh wrote: post #386
marsokod wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In that world, Tesla would have had to switch their cars over to CCS eventually and retrofit their existing chargers to CCS, and people who bought Teslas with the proprietary plug have a terrible UX of needing adapters everywhere. It should be noted that in any case Tesla will have to support CCS, though in its CCS2 version. It is the de facto standard in Europe and is in the process of making their chargers in Eur…

In fact Type 2 or Combo2 (CCS2) is an EU requirement for the charging stations so while you can offer alternatives, all new charging stations must offer of those two. Directive 2014/94/EU: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

Yes. CCS2 has not technically won yet as being the default port for all EVs in Europe, but any other option would have to have significant advantages over CCS2 to win, features that a potential CCS3 version would not be able to support.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#409

Post by logifail »

Wheen wrote: post #347
logifail wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most EVs charge at home most of the time Umm, there's a significant chunk of the world's population who will likely never be able to charge at home, because they live in apartments and park on-street. "EV owners who live in apartment buildings and park on the street will rely heavily on public chargers—in 2021, 42 percent of European EV owners living in cities had no access to home charging points." https://www.mck…

> will rely heavily on public chargers Public chargers =/= DC fast chargers (like Tesla superchargers). I've already seen level 2 chargers that drop down from light posts in my city. Roll those out to every light post near apartment buildings and throw in some curb-side stalls if you need more capacity. Most people won't need to charge every night with 200/300mi+ range, so you won't need a 1:1 mapping of chargers to…

> Roll those out to every light post near apartment buildings and throw in some curb-side stalls if you need more capacity

Don't forget your local electrical grid will likely need a significant upgrade too. An LED streetlamp probably draws a couple of hundred watts, tops.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#410

Post by ianburrell »

erinnh wrote: post #262
throw0101c wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technology Connections did a deep dive on CCS and it seems like it's a more flexible connector with a truly open standard. He did a video on this Connextras channel about this news: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjny4u5THpU While he thinks the Tesla physical connector is probably better, the CCS communications standard is better (AIUI). So once Telsa adopts that, it will probably be a good system. Also: he's ta…

Wait. CCS1 cant handle three-phase power? I just read about it and no wonder its not that popular. You can charge 7.4kw maximum in the US at home with CCS1. In Europe you can charge up to 22kw without going DC.

Level 2 can charge up to 19kW (240V at 80A) but 12kW (50A) is more common.

NACS also can't do three-phase power. Three-phase power is rare in the US, it is only found in commercial locations that need it.

Post reply on HN