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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#381
post #349

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I've been seeing some of these as well in recent years. The most memorable one was down in Louisville, where there was a gas station/bait shop/bar. The bartender sold me some whole-hog pork sausage at $2/lb. which he kept in a duffel bag in the ice box. Totally on the up-and-up. Another is a well-known BBQ joint / convenience store out by Kansas City (I forget the name). Most common, I think, is having a Subway insid…

> The bartender sold me some whole-hog pork sausage at $2/lb. which he kept in a duffel bag in the ice box. Totally on the up-and-up. The secret ingredient is trichinosis!

Nah, the nitrates take care of that.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#382
post #352

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Not all Tesla's can speak CCS. Older Teslas need a $400 retrofit to be able to use the Tesla CCS1 adapter. https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter

Yeah, only ~80% of Teslas in the US support it without modification.

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#383
post #211

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BMW in my circles has the reputation as being a brand you buy when you can afford to have a car in the shop most of the time. Most American brands have reputation as just being really poorly built and bad value props. Not sure how either of those two options overcomes that view.

Tesla also has quite the reputation for cheaply built cars that are outrageously expensive to repair

Outrageously expensive to repair sure (though which car isn’t these days, my corrolla got into a fender bender and fixing the bumper was north of $1000), but I’m talking about always in the shop due to shoddy construction. Afaik that doesn’t really apply to teslas.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most EVs charge at home most of the time, so there isn't that much money in the "fuel" industry, they are mostly needed for long distance trips (and so crowd up on holiday weekends), not daily driving.

> Most EVs charge at home most of the time Umm, there's a significant chunk of the world's population who will likely never be able to charge at home, because they live in apartments and park on-street. "EV owners who live in apartment buildings and park on the street will rely heavily on public chargers—in 2021, 42 percent of European EV owners living in cities had no access to home charging points." https://www.mck…

Yah this is where people get stuck in their way of thinking about current technology limitations.

Really fast <10m charge times are only about 5 years away which means people will use DC fast chargers like gas stations.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#385
post #351

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It is easy to explain when you consider that 2 car models are representing ~1.7M cars this year. Their strategy is a little nutty and has basically required them to underprice their vehicles. Any other mfg would cut back production to maintain margins.

Most non-Tesla auto manufacturers are taking a loss on their new EVs ATM as they try to optimize supply and recoup R&D costs.

Yeah, but I bet that changes once they get to ~400k per year. That isn't much different from Tesla's path.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about how this is affects Tesla is "compared to what?" Compared to the historic status quo where there were no other chargers, and Tesla had exclusive access to a large-ish proprietary charging network, it looks like Tesla giving up their advantage, and seems bad. But the forward-looking status quo was going to be a gigantic network of CCS chargers that makes Tesla's proprietary network look small, with eve…

> In that world, Tesla would have had to switch their cars over to CCS eventually and retrofit their existing chargers to CCS, and people who bought Teslas with the proprietary plug have a terrible UX of needing adapters everywhere. It should be noted that in any case Tesla will have to support CCS, though in its CCS2 version. It is the de facto standard in Europe and is in the process of making their chargers in Eur…

In fact Type 2 or Combo2 (CCS2) is an EU requirement for the charging stations so while you can offer alternatives, all new charging stations must offer of those two.

Directive 2014/94/EU:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest rounds of gas convenience stores have gotten more square footage than earlier generations. I suspect they are anticipating indoor seating for charging customers at some point. I’ve also started seeing joint ventures where it’s a proper coffee stand or in one case I can think of an A&W root beer. Gas stations tend to be physically separated from pastimes (what Burger King owner wants diesel fumes in their s…

That is a very astute observation! Thank you. I have wondered why more and more convenience stores are getting into not just quick, pick-up snacks, but full blown fast-food style sit down environment. Recently when I drove around in the USA, I saw Sheetz, Wawa, Royal Farms, Rutter's, and High's. These are substantially larger with lots of amenities compared to the standard gas stations. Nothing compared to Buc-ee's,…

Sheetz, Wawa and Royal Farms all already have Tesla chargers. Wawa has a location in Virginia with no gas pumps but Tesla chargers. So yes they are already planning for this future.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#388

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Pretty sure Tesla's moat is that people think they are cool and other EVs aren't.

Just to clarify, in business terminology, that's not a moat. A moat is something difficult/impossible for other competitors to cross, something strategically defensive. Being cool isn't a moat because anyone else can become cool. In contrast, network effects are a classic example of a moat, because no matter how much cooler/better your product is, people won't switch until the majority of the rest of their network sw…

That's not strictly correct. It's (very!) hard for someone to replicate the brand of Apple or Coca-Cola. Moats are all on a scale, and branding is one of the generally harder ones to compete with.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most EVs charge at home most of the time Umm, there's a significant chunk of the world's population who will likely never be able to charge at home, because they live in apartments and park on-street. "EV owners who live in apartment buildings and park on the street will rely heavily on public chargers—in 2021, 42 percent of European EV owners living in cities had no access to home charging points." https://www.mck…

Yah this is where people get stuck in their way of thinking about current technology limitations. Really fast <10m charge times are only about 5 years away which means people will use DC fast chargers like gas stations.

I wouldn't make investment decisions on that kind of prediction. Slower (cheaper) chargers will take much of the load, and unless outlawed, are going to heavily bite into fuel station margins. The best they can do is charge more for DC fast charging when it is needed (during holiday weekends).

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#390
post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. The cars themselves are quickly being beaten out by the larger players.

And bots/autonomy.
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