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Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

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Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#401
post #388
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Iran. Still banned though. [ https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pakistan/government-bans-imp... ] Of course, so are most drugs in the US.

I believe that receiving state media with state-approved satellite services is A-OK. This is an import ban on unapproved equipment.

It’s also legal to take state approved drugs in the US.

Point taken though!

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#402
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is-- I love the interactive internet, but wouldn't it be cool if it gracefully degraded to still provide "postcards" and "broadcast radio" and a bit more as capacity went down, intermittency went up, and inability to return traffic was sometimes a factor? This already exists, it's called ham radio. There are even large communities of folks sending 'postcards' to each other on a regular basis.

I'm probably failing to articulate what I'm describing. Not really. I've been part of the SSTV scene. I know about packet and things like PACTOR etc too. I remember operating a UUCP site, and I remember how well network news gracefully dealt with quite a wide variety of sites with different ad-hoc setups. I miss that. I wish more of today's internet was a bit more like that: all the interactivity in the world when th…

The reason I think you’re getting so much confusion is it doesn’t seem to make any sense to folks what you’re proposing.

It seems like an edge case either already served by existing tech except for some very, very small set of situations where most won’t consider it practical or useful anyway. They’ll just knuckle under the societal rules which forbid it, because the cost of doing it in a way they won’t likely be caught and imprisoned isn’t worth it to them.

Most people just care about having food in their belly every day, feeling safe and loved, and being able to believe that what they’re doing is okay day to day and will work out to be all good in the future.

Doing what you’re proposing doesn’t really help them with that.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would suggest countries with more power outages should have higher adoption of power backups? Yet, about 25% of population in Pakistan does not even have access to electricity. [1] Meanwhile the rest of the country frequently is plunged into darkness with millions without electricity. [2] Yet, solar adoption in the country is very low and most of the population does not have any backup power. [1] https://data.…

solar adoption in the country is very low More than anything, this is due to financing, not will. The reason why most developing nations don't have enough power, is they don't have enough financing (money) to build the power plants / windmills / solar panels. North India has so many power outages that it is normal to have very large batteries in your house to ride them out.

That was the point I was trying to make: countries where such things happen, also often have populations that cannot and do not have solar or energy backups.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#404
post #402
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm probably failing to articulate what I'm describing. Not really. I've been part of the SSTV scene. I know about packet and things like PACTOR etc too. I remember operating a UUCP site, and I remember how well network news gracefully dealt with quite a wide variety of sites with different ad-hoc setups. I miss that. I wish more of today's internet was a bit more like that: all the interactivity in the world when th…

The reason I think you’re getting so much confusion is it doesn’t seem to make any sense to folks what you’re proposing. It seems like an edge case either already served by existing tech except for some very, very small set of situations where most won’t consider it practical or useful anyway. They’ll just knuckle under the societal rules which forbid it, because the cost of doing it in a way they won’t likely be cau…

> It seems like an edge case either already served by existing tech except for some very, very small set of situations where most won’t consider it practical or useful anyway

Yes, it's all about the edge cases that don't affect the commercial value of the network much. It's about dealing with natural disaster, intermittent and very low quality network connections by modern standards, people in remote areas, or censorship. It may even be about space missions and distant probes in the future.

SSB is a neat system if you're on a sailboat with connectivity every few days. Othernet is a neat system for pushing what satellite communications can do to the limit. Of course, systems being technically neat is not what gets them adopted.

Networks, network capacity, and network reach have grown so much that we've forgotten about UUCP, etc. We have better algorithmic tools and more computation to build networks that tolerate disconnection, intermittency, etc. But perhaps we don't have the commercial motivation to use them, even if they would make the networks and societies that use them more robust.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#405
post #401
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that receiving state media with state-approved satellite services is A-OK. This is an import ban on unapproved equipment.

It’s also legal to take state approved drugs in the US. Point taken though!

The point is, there's a whole lot of (mostly legal) satellite receivers around, so looking for satellite receivers doesn't seem like a great way to spot dissidents immediately.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#406
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you have a large portion of the population running these dishes, it's game over It is illegal to bring them into the country, and if you get caught doing so it's jail time. That is true today of drones and any sat communication system in many, many countries.

The black market tends to pop up to satisfy demand in violation of controls. Find a high ranking official who can tell the police to back off and cut them in: then you're in business, at least until they're purged. But even then, the next person in the seat will most likely respond to the same incentives and business will resume... Even in North Korea, this process takes place. It's just that much slower and riskier,…

While your philosophical approach sounds good written down, I can tell you from experience, the reality on the ground is vastly different.

I drove my own vehicle across the land borders into Mauritania, Mali, Nigeria, Cameroon, Congo, DRC, Angola, Burundi, Ethiopia, Djibouti, Sudan, Egypt and about 40 more countries.

You DO NOT want to bring sat communication equipment into countries where it is strictly prohibited.

Some of those countries won't even let you bring 2-way radios in (military tech)

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those seem like very ideologically pure motives to attribute to a political decision. Maybe the generals just think they'd like to run the country for a while, and they've promised their colonels positions of power, and the colonels have promised their lieutenants promotions, and so on all the way down.

These personal reasons would always exist. I’m curious about the justification they would provide to the rest of the world about why they intervened? That gives the moral basis for their use of power. I personally think, even if good rewards existed without a justification to provide that is consistent with their morality/ history of the country it would be very hard for the military to depose a government like they…

> there is good precedent and this justification is less necessary

I guess this is more or less the reason. They probably see themselves as the first line of defence in internal security unlike at other democratic countries.

The repeated military intervention in internal matters has set off a positive feedback loop where those capable enough and wanting to bring positive impact join the military. So remaining institutions (civil services, police, law& order, politics etc.,) continue to erode and get more corrupt.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#408
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, any kind of radio transmission is detectable. It's why radio silence is a thing when stealth is important.

Spread spectrum, and especially pseudo-random noise codes are pretty hard to detect i think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-sequence_spread_spectru...

The more random it is, the harder it is to have certainty, but at high enough transmission rates and powers the raised noise floor is impossible to miss and is definitely something that can be triangulated.

If a normal radio transmission is a point light of a specific color, truly random spread spectrum is a grey glow.

Direct sequence spread spectrum being many different color flashing lights here, I guess.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are equating bifurcation of states for political & administrative reasons, within the same country, to splitting a country into two ! When a country is split, crimes committed against those who are migrating to another country will not be prosecuted by the home country, and will not be possible to be prosecuted by the split country. Land, Houses and other immovable assets will be stolen from those who are forced…

neither Gazwa-e-Hind nor Islam as one true religion was not cause or even ideas behind partition. And speaking about Gazwa-e-Hind, while conveniently ignoring Akhand Bharat, is pure propaganda. If you read about Jinnah in old school history books which unfortunately are being edited out by NCERT in India, he was never was religiously motivated. His idea was Muslim population would be a minority in Hindu controlled st…

He (Jinnah) also basically predicted exactly what would happen during Shah Bano case

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#410
post #404
post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I think you’re getting so much confusion is it doesn’t seem to make any sense to folks what you’re proposing. It seems like an edge case either already served by existing tech except for some very, very small set of situations where most won’t consider it practical or useful anyway. They’ll just knuckle under the societal rules which forbid it, because the cost of doing it in a way they won’t likely be cau…

> It seems like an edge case either already served by existing tech except for some very, very small set of situations where most won’t consider it practical or useful anyway Yes, it's all about the edge cases that don't affect the commercial value of the network much. It's about dealing with natural disaster, intermittent and very low quality network connections by modern standards, people in remote areas, or censor…

I think to answer your underlying question of ‘why’ a bit.

You say ‘robust’ for societies as if it’s a given positive, but there is an implied statement hidden there.

Robust against what?

Robust against censorship is rarely desired by the majority (and certainly not openly), because the censorship is with the consent (and often at the request of!) the majority.

Just look at the CSAM/Kiddie Porn discussion in the US.

At least as long as the majorities interests and the gov’ts interests align enough, which is usually for far longer than anyone wants to admit.

So as long as it doesn’t step on the majorities ability to get what they want when they want it more than they are willing to tolerate, robustness against it will always be a feature with a limited market and a lot of opposition. An anti-feature in some ways, or at least it will be spun that way.

We may consider robustness against this good - and I personally do - but in my experience that is far from a common attribute, especially if you boil it down to specific examples.

Should Pakistan be able to robustly send how to bomb US targets + propaganda to everyone? Should someone be able to do the same with child porn? Or anti-Islamic rhetoric? Or anti-women’s rights? Or anti-free speech?

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