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Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

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Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#251

Post by yipbub »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #200
propogandist wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modi is corrupt. The guy does not have the interest of the country at heart, he just cares about the Ambanis and increasing the wealth of his political allies.

> Modi is corrupt Source? Part of his allure and political inertia comes from being squeaky clean as far as bribes go.

He was complicit in the Gujurat riots ethnic cleansing[0] Demonetization was a scheme to enrich his billionaire friends and party[0]. There's a lot more, and being the PM he hasn't allowed the media to question him. He only appears in staged interviews singing his praises or speeches.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_riots [1] https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/national/bjp-members-kne...

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#253

Post by throwawaytt »

anaganisk wrote: post #190
throwawaytt wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So you made a throwaway to say this? Did you even read my comment properly? I said average citizens and people like you again go back to propaganda. Tell me what BJP uses to win elections all the time? Hatred against Muslims? Top BJP Subramaniyam swami was quoted saying "Muslims are not equals, so they don't need equal rights". >They preach hatered towards Hindus/Jews in their schools (books are filled with hatred).…

Average citizen in Pakistan supports army which instigated 4 wars against India so far

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#254

Post by JumpCrisscross »

yipbub wrote: post #251
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Modi is corrupt Source? Part of his allure and political inertia comes from being squeaky clean as far as bribes go.

He was complicit in the Gujurat riots ethnic cleansing[0] Demonetization was a scheme to enrich his billionaire friends and party[0]. There's a lot more, and being the PM he hasn't allowed the media to question him. He only appears in staged interviews singing his praises or speeches. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_riots [1] https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/national/bjp-members-kne...

> Gujurat riots ethnic cleansing…Demonetization…only appears in staged interviews singing his praises or speeches

None of this is corruption. Authoritarianism. Populism, perhaps. But not fraudulent, not bribery, and not corruption.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#255

Post by yutijke »

windex wrote: post #170
screye wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But not the way you might think. Let me be clear. I am not a Bhakt, don't particularly love Modi and have complained quite often about bad policies during his regime. My goal is to help people build a representative view of India, not one that fawns over Modi. The BJP absolutely pushes for Hindutva, but 'Hindutva' is an umbrella term that can mean anything from 'places greater importance on cultural traditions t…

>If inclusivity is complete blindness towards religion in front of the law, then you get France style secularism which BJP pushes. If I could give you points for humor, I would.

You can keep your points.

Congress supports religion specific exceptions for personal laws - marriage, inheritance, etc.

BJP stated policy position opposes this, which by definition is more close to French secularism.

I don't even like BJP, but y'all seriously need to get over your Gell-Mann amnesisa.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#256

Post by syntheweave »

grecy wrote: post #245
csomar wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is, guys with guns will come to your door, beat you with a wrench, and put you in jail. This is hyperbole. A dictator might have the tools to shut off a couple of dissident. But if you have a large portion of the population running these dishes, it's game over. > Most people are bootlickers. Most people want the type of power structure that ends up with the internet blocked. They don't want freedom - th…

> But if you have a large portion of the population running these dishes, it's game over It is illegal to bring them into the country, and if you get caught doing so it's jail time. That is true today of drones and any sat communication system in many, many countries.

The black market tends to pop up to satisfy demand in violation of controls. Find a high ranking official who can tell the police to back off and cut them in: then you're in business, at least until they're purged. But even then, the next person in the seat will most likely respond to the same incentives and business will resume...

Even in North Korea, this process takes place. It's just that much slower and riskier, and when lots of controls are slapped on people become too destitute to buy product. But the letter of the law is ultimately just a "threat" in your SWOT analysis when you're able to tempt people with personal gain.

What good governance ultimately does is to enable everyone's indifference on these matters: the rules are out in the open, nobody's keeping secrets and blackmailing their rivals, and the result is sufficiently fair that going against it is a position only a tiny minority are inclined to take. Once everyone's in circumlocutions about their actual position because the politics have gotten out of hand, you have the kind of confusing, hysterical mess that would move someone to turn off the Internet rather than let any more rumors spread.

Thus, this kind of tech - anything in the realm of decentralized communications - is easiest to access in the places of the world that need it the least.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#257

Post by xNeil »

windex wrote: post #228
xNeil wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were a total of 117 lynchings in India in 2019, compared to 41 for the US in the same time period. This is the same number of lynchings on a per capita basis - while 117 lynchings is a 117 too many, the number is effectively negligible in a country of 1.2 billion people. Execution style hit jobs on rivals? When did these happen? Are you simply making up executions in your mind? Claiming India will collapse in 1…

>Execution style hit jobs on rivals? When did these happen? You haven't heard of Uttar Pradesh?

I see what you're getting to - while you're not wrong, you're not right either.

They're not carrying hitjobs on rivals or opponents - they're eliminating gang leaders and major criminals. The judiciary is either afraid of giving these gangsters actual sentences, or have been bribed by the gangsters. To solve this, the police has effectively taken the execution of justice into their own hand.

I know it may sound absurd, and the idea of the police taking matters into their own hands would normally scare me, but Uttar Pradesh seems to be an exception. The rule of law has broken down so completely it needs the law to be broken to be brought back, if that makes any sense to you.

The gangsters that were killed were a bit like the mafia in that sense - everyone knew they were crooks, and everyone knew what they did. It seems the tipping point for the ruling party to execute (or 'encounter', as it is called in India) these gangsters is when they kill policemen. Since the judiciary will not punish them, it becomes necessary for the police to inculcate a fear of the police in gangsters' minds in order for their policing activities to actually be effective.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#258

Post by data-abuse »

Thorrez wrote: post #246
usernew wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you suggest is impossible, because you are attacking a wrench on the head problem with a coding solution. You can always get a dish and connect to your choice of orbital provider, if your ISP - which is regulated - is blocked. The problem is, guys with guns will come to your door, beat you with a wrench, and put you in jail. Now if we solve for the real issue - lack of freedom because of a ruling class, the tech…

>magats prosecuting women and doctors for murder because of a life-threatening abortion Are you saying that's something that has happened? Do you have a link?

Mother and daughter charged https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/18/us/abortion-prosecution-n...

Many women with life threatening conditions get stuck waiting for the inevitable because they have already created evidence by going to a doctor. If anything happens to the baby without evidence of natural causes, they can be prosecuted. This has put women in a tough place.

This is a story that might help you understand

https://www.propublica.org/article/tennessee-abortion-ban-do...

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#259

Post by vmfunction »

theK wrote: post #237
usernew wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you suggest is impossible, because you are attacking a wrench on the head problem with a coding solution. You can always get a dish and connect to your choice of orbital provider, if your ISP - which is regulated - is blocked. The problem is, guys with guns will come to your door, beat you with a wrench, and put you in jail. Now if we solve for the real issue - lack of freedom because of a ruling class, the tech…

As a EU citizen I’m a bit offended, how do EU citizens have no freedom of speech?

[flagged]

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#260

Post by phtrivier »

usernew wrote: post #157
skeaker wrote: post #6

I would like to believe there is a future where blocking access to the internet is unilaterally impossible. Major powers being able to pull the rug on what has become a foundation of modern society like this is too scary of a thing to allow. What could the answer be? Satellite-powered relays and DIY-able user devices to talk to them?

What you suggest is impossible, because you are attacking a wrench on the head problem with a coding solution. You can always get a dish and connect to your choice of orbital provider, if your ISP - which is regulated - is blocked. The problem is, guys with guns will come to your door, beat you with a wrench, and put you in jail. Now if we solve for the real issue - lack of freedom because of a ruling class, the tech…

> EU citizens have no freedom of speech

I was thinking exactly that the other day, while watching a TV show on national publicly funded television, where a variety of pundits where discussing the first year of the present term of the ruling president, and the on-set comedian summed up the situation : "the panel and the country is split in two : those that don't like the ruler, and those who hate him".

The youngest panelist (a twitch political streamer) argued about constitution changes with an older panelist (journalist in a far right newspaper). The table was filled with various levels of right center, vaguely socio democrats, a few has been still stuck in the 70s, etc...

Everyone talked very loudly and eloquently.

We may lack direct power, direct control over our institution, we may live in tight societies with few chances of social mobility, we definitely have press ownership issues, etc...

But for one think, i believe we have _some_ freedom of speech.

No, I'll leave the floor to those who define "free speech" as "the freedom to insult" :P

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