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Developers’ side projects

joelonsoftware.com

401–410 of 411 posts

Re: Developers’ side projects

#401

As a Canadian I don't even know what the requirements are, or protections if any. But I did notice one thing in particular: you need your own equipment (no company equipment) to qualify under the Californian protections. How does this factor into bring your own device (BYOD)? At what point is it your employers equipment, and at what point is it yours? I think BYOD is a terrible idea for several reasons (usually lever…

> If you only own the devices that you use to work, does everything belong to your employer and how can you draw a line?

I would say: don't do that. If you do, you should probably have a contract leasing your equipment to the company. Generally, if you need to use your own equipment for work, then you should probably have an agreement that falls under the "contracting" (or B2B or consulting) umbrella.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#402
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem looks reasonably clear. If something is provided to you by the employer, don't use it for a side project. This can be hardware, software, know-how, office space, work hours, etc. If something was not provided by the employer as a part of your work environment, it's probably fine to use it. But a clear separation should additionally help.

I agree it's probably wise to separate the two, but it's very hard to prove you worked on company equipment. My personal projects are all in my dropbox, which is synced to all my computers (both home and work). That means all the code for my side projects is always sitting on my work computer as well. I doubt that makes a difference.

You can turn off syncing to specific machines. You may want to consider doing that.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you handle this as a typical employee is to not work for dicks. That way when they see you being successful they cheer you on rather than try to bring you down. Also, you don't always have no leverage to negotiate contract terms. When I separated from my last job, my severance agreement as given to me included a 2 year gag clause keeping me from talking about it to anyone. I negotiated it down to six months,…

Just be careful. A company and its board isn't a person - it's a legal entity. The company exists solely to make profit. That's it. And, the company will do everything in its legal power to do so. It doesn't matter what the intent of the founders were, nor how nice your boss or even the current owners are. They are not the company. Plus, I've seen way too many nice people turn into 'dicks' when it came down to money.…

Indeed.

Anyone forming a company in England & Wales, also, might benefit from a chat with someone with long experience as a company director, or professional secretary, or even better a insolvency practitioner. If none are to hand, the staff at Companies House are unable to provide opinions, but I found they are ready to give well rounded observations which might make anyone think twice as to the value of relying on Companies Act, to protect their rights. At least the Act, alone. I've even enjoyed a very candid conversation at some length with the Registrar Of Companies, when the last major Act came into force, and she was incredibly helpful and illuminating, explaining the nuances of her statutory role and its offices. For guidance as to effect of Articles or Association, please do ask their Compliance office. Articles or Table A are the bylaws of a company, and many sharp operators will try to get Companies House to accept heavily modified articles, which contradict or attempt to restrict, statutory rights, roles or obligations. There was once a inactive registered company, names Silverstone blah blah management, about the time of a rumoured bid for control of the motor racing circuit. I pulled the Table A, and none to my surprise, almost every page of it was marked in the margin, alongside almost every paragraph, with a dot or a code, indicating Compliance was highly suspect of this document, as to its legality. But, as Compa ies House began to intone by reflex, I remember the information becoming a mantra when inquiring about almost anything, they are only a records office, not enforcers. The Registrar told me in addition, that that year sh had budget and allowance (I got the sense as if she felt it was a deliberately token allowance, arbitrarily set somehow and not under her budgetary power, to prosecute four directors each month, for technical breaches of the law. I had presented her office with a single director, for whom records tallied literally hundreds of summary offences.

Larger but less scrupulous or less publicly reported companies, flout the law routinely, a trivial cost of doing business. Small fly by nights and sham "business partners" you may encounter, may roll right over you, in a instant. You might be a director and have majority equity in common shares, but another director may (quite unlawfully, but see further) de-register you as a director, call a company meeting, if one is even required, dilute you to nothing, seek shareholder approval for consolidating fraudulent actions, like divesting working capital via special dividend, and banks will almost in every single case, do as they are told if the right forms are provided. You will sure have recourse under the Act, and many summary (not tried but assessed on the facts by a judge) offenses are criminal and even punishable by imprisonment, but you would be lost without a proper management contract and ideally a law firm of repute contracted as Company Secretary and that contract specifying detailed additional procedures, even clerical checks and notifications help here, and ultimately if thus sort of thing happens, you are in real trouble with little real recourse and no immediate remedy.

That's a mere taste of the fun which can be English Limited Companies!

From memory, and it's long since I undertook any comparative study, only Sweden has laws which truly make a manager / managing director, responsible for their behaviour, under real penalty. Obviously, don't take my word for it, but I was seeking answer to just this: "So where can I risk turning my back one second, on a limited company I invest in?", and Sweden was the only jurisdiction which I felt satisfied me.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you handle this as a typical employee is to not work for dicks. That way when they see you being successful they cheer you on rather than try to bring you down. Also, you don't always have no leverage to negotiate contract terms. When I separated from my last job, my severance agreement as given to me included a 2 year gag clause keeping me from talking about it to anyone. I negotiated it down to six months,…

Just be careful. A company and its board isn't a person - it's a legal entity. The company exists solely to make profit. That's it. And, the company will do everything in its legal power to do so. It doesn't matter what the intent of the founders were, nor how nice your boss or even the current owners are. They are not the company. Plus, I've seen way too many nice people turn into 'dicks' when it came down to money.…

oops, p.s. re my hypothetical of a director abusing powers:

digital signatures and other online filing is of course potential safeguard to much abuse,

but how many accountants are given those keys, to file reports, and how many accountants will typically be contracted to accept instruction solely from two simultaneous directors authorizing together?

I has one bank account, where it's never been possible to get the bank to enforce the |two signatures required| rule that was supposed to be created on ticking the obvious, simple, standard feature, option box on their form!

I personally think the way to go with UK entities, is to ensure all company compliance is handled by a larger or larger accountancy, and to begin the contract with a obligation to report "any notable alteration or variation from last known fully authorized intent as mandated by a order approved by the full board", with requirement to cease work until they have a appropriate (by scale, with "if in doubt, require every approval as if the contract is void" e.g, written responses from directors, not mere "informed by email at 03.42hrs Saturday".

But that is expensive, of course.

I can no longer neatly summarise, and I would be woefully out of date anyhow, how the principles of England & Wales company law, tend to uphold directors powers, almost to omnipotence.

But the actual Companies Court, a branch of the High Courts, has teeth, if you apply to it.

I never looked up if this was affected by recent legislation, and I cannot even recall the case docket any longer, but a 1973 case caused a director to be disqualified fro life from being involved in any company, solely on the evidence he relied on a accountant for advice during a decision.

The principle the court upheld, was that a director gains his power under the act solely by competency to run a company, and solely under his or her own attestation and reconnaissance of such competence and in the event that a director explicitly sought even professional external advice, he was under a duty to the company to de minimus inform the board his positive reconnaissance of competency was I doubt; second that by failing to do so, he acted fraudulently in being without capacity to contract his obligations, which is a implied prerequisite of employment, which employment is a fact of appointment, thirdly that by relying on (even professional) advice, he caused the actual decision basis to become unknown to the board, as he could not be questioned at a later extraordinary meeting about the crisis the company faced, and therefore was liable to a criminal standard of deception.

Name me one company director (count of fingers, I mean, if you can name any) whom you know do not rely on accountants to make financial decisions?

As late as mid 2000s, I found no superseding case law to overrule this earlier precedent. But actual actions in Companies Court are rare. If you were in need of stopping a rogue director in their actions, or others in acting upon rogue instructions, you would wan to rush down to Applications Court, with as much evidence as you can grab, the pertinent law for reference, and a draft "without notice" application to obtain a order immediately, not waiting for anyone to reply, not wasting time politely writing cease & desist of other futile letters, and most likely unless you really are mistaken, you probably will get such a order to serve to stop rogue actions, with little or no delay. Such action is easily within the competence of most anyone here, to quickly prepare and present. You will find the Master Of Court, himself usually a senior judge, acting as a "doorman" or "bouncer" to prevent rubbish cases wasting the court's time. The Master is exactly who can be willing to get your application in good order, something I know no remotely affordable solicitor can do, within the time necessary, or at all. The experience in court is infinitely less troubling or intimidating, than the real worries you likely are facing, time of your visit. I found that court almost friendly, if friendly wasn't quite the effect they would ever go for... Judges are not unhelpful to law litigants in person, nor is anyone in the high courts, allowing you aren't silly or time wasting.

I used to rant and rave about how much complete and utter disrespect for company law costs the UK, the lassezx faire of it all, providing none of the benefits the legislation might be hoped to provide a smaller business, in terms of a level base of behaviour etc. But that was before Companies House began citing legislation guidance notes, stating the purpose of the act was to promote business, a nebulous and at worst deceptive "mission statement" that the registrars' offices were not hiding behind so much, as using as a clear warning sign to the attentive, whenever they could. It's really worth getting a chat with anyone there able to still give their time and not attached to a ACD headset, but in real office, I wholeheartedly recommend inquiring beyond casual call center contact, if the moment offers itself to do so.

FWIW, my most rewarding, productive, and of all my experiences the least every worried about money, collaboration in business, was with a family friend and henceforth, my friend, who sadly passed away unexpectedly and far too young, a decade ago. But my experience of "doing business with a friend" is almost unique, and we almost vied with one another competitively to be "by the book" and compliant with our duties to one another and company because of lousy earlier experiences. If anything, I think we raised that to the point of being a unnecessarily high cost, at least from our time. But it was absolutely a superb and indeed rare case of continuous trust building, which didn't supplant other necessary trust creating behaviour, nor detract or affect life negatively in any way. (e.g. bothering too much about being "above board" never caused one of us to think the other was "overdoing it much" for the wrong reasons. I can merely hope I'll have as good a experience again. But one huge positive legacy of all that exercise in transparency and proper discharge of our duties, really made me acutely aware of how I've just not met anyone since who I felt could meet my late partner's standards. I think we used our exchange of concerns as a means to inspect our business very usefully, but in the real world, you simply must have systems in place to fulfil this role, or you'll go crazy.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's probably wise to separate the two, but it's very hard to prove you worked on company equipment. My personal projects are all in my dropbox, which is synced to all my computers (both home and work). That means all the code for my side projects is always sitting on my work computer as well. I doubt that makes a difference.

You can turn off syncing to specific machines. You may want to consider doing that.

I used my own equipment, including my own personal licenses for all tools, but my employer still claimed my work on it (at home) was theirs - because they claimed IT professionals all prefer to use their own equipment for their work.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That precludes any opportunity to pursue any new ideas I would come up with. No, it just means that the list of excluded projects needs to be amended every so often.

I asked if it were possible to amend the employment contract and they said, "you'd have to quit and re-apply".

> they said, "you'd have to quit and re-apply".

Frankly, that's BS. Employment agreements get amended all the time. You can bet that if it was a change the company decided needed to be made that getting it done wouldn't require them firing everyone and then re-hiring them.

I get the impression you're being blocked by someone who just doesn't want to be bothered, and making a weak excuse is just their easy way out.

You can try an end-run (with the attendant risks). If the agreement itself doesn't contain reusable language providing for amendments, then just keep it simple: draw up a replacement appendix, and stick language at the top that says the list below is added to section X of Document Y attached as appendix B to the employment agreement between $COMPANY and $EMPLOYEE signed on $DATE, copy the format of the signature block at the end of your agreement and send it to the same person who signed your employment contract in the first place for them to sign and return.

IANAL, TINLA, etc., so feel free to get a local labor and employment lawyer to review your agreement and the amendment you've drawn up. Figure on 1-2 billable hours if you have it mostly right.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#407
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cool, and I'm happy for you. But is this something that should be a luxury only reserved for those in a good bargaining position?

For the most part, a developer shouldn't be in a poor bargaining position by the time a contract is on the table. They've invested time and money into you. They want to hire you. This is where you stake out your claim.

And we should never be coerced into death marches. But it still happens in reality.

The offer of a contract might bolster one's bargaining position a tiny amount, but usually it is still dwarfed by the huge power the company still wields. Especially if one is in the position where they really need the job. If you're unemployed, then you have no bargaining power, regardless of whether they're offering you a contract or not.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#408
post #297
post #45

I have to say, I'm really, really sick of the entitled mentality that companies take towards those that actually do the work keeping their business afloat.

It's not an entitled mentality per se, it's just that a company is a profit-maximising entity a-la a hypothetical paperclip-producing AI that eventually turns the entire Earth into paperclips through no ill intent.

That sounds like an entitled mentality to me.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#409
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regardless of whether you are legally right, a larger company could sue you for the sake of suing, and make your life very miserable A company with resources could sue you for a number of bogus reasons if they wanted to be dicks.

Yeah but law isn't magic, you can take away their options by planning ahead.

No you can't. Anyone can sue you any time for any reason, and then it's just a matter of how badly you are going to lose: because even "winning" means you wasted tens of thousands of dollars, at minimum, paying lawyers to defend you.

Your only defense, as a small player, is not to be noticed.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple. Don't work as an employee. This is the one industry where it really isn't that difficult. I took the leap 5 years ago and within 3 years quadrupled my income and have complete autonomy and freedom.

For those who like this idea, can we have a communication channel to ask how you did it?

Also interested +1
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