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Developers’ side projects

joelonsoftware.com

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41–50 of 411 posts

Re: Developers’ side projects

#41

Post by clay_to_n »

nostromo wrote: post #31

This is a good article, but the "let them eat cake"-iness of the last paragraph is pretty chilling. > the only way to gain independence is to be independent. Being an employee of a high tech company whose product is intellectual means that you have decided that you want to sell your intellectual output, and maybe that’s OK, and maybe it’s not, but it’s a free choice. I was hoping for a closing argument about how thou…

Not quit - above he outlines different attitudes the employing company might have about side projects.

I think his message distilled would be that by default you may not own your side project - so talk with your employer, and maybe get an agreement in writing, if you want to change that.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#42

Post by dpc59 »

nostromo wrote: post #31

This is a good article, but the "let them eat cake"-iness of the last paragraph is pretty chilling. > the only way to gain independence is to be independent. Being an employee of a high tech company whose product is intellectual means that you have decided that you want to sell your intellectual output, and maybe that’s OK, and maybe it’s not, but it’s a free choice. I was hoping for a closing argument about how thou…

It ticks me off how a lot of managers always forget about how the job market is a buyer's market when they write about it.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#44

Post by vesak »

This is why programmers need unions! Or a guild. Or something! That employers totally dictate everything in a field that is in such high demand is absolutely unacceptable.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#46

Post by st3v3r »

danjoc wrote: post #43

I negotiated IP assignment out of my employment contract before taking my job. I wouldn't take a job that tried to lay claim to my work outside of work.

That's cool, and I'm happy for you. But is this something that should be a luxury only reserved for those in a good bargaining position?

Re: Developers’ side projects

#47

Post by bdowling »

nostromo wrote: post #31

This is a good article, but the "let them eat cake"-iness of the last paragraph is pretty chilling. > the only way to gain independence is to be independent. Being an employee of a high tech company whose product is intellectual means that you have decided that you want to sell your intellectual output, and maybe that’s OK, and maybe it’s not, but it’s a free choice. I was hoping for a closing argument about how thou…

> Instead he seems to just be saying that employees that want to keep their side projects should just quit.

I thought he was suggesting that employees take it as an opportunity to negotiate for higher salary, since the company will be buying all of their inventive output. Then they should just work 9-5 and enjoy their free time by relaxing instead of working on side projects. That seems like pretty reasonable advice, unless you're in California, in which case an employee doesn't have that bargaining leverage.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#48

Post by tptacek »

nostromo wrote: post #31

This is a good article, but the "let them eat cake"-iness of the last paragraph is pretty chilling. > the only way to gain independence is to be independent. Being an employee of a high tech company whose product is intellectual means that you have decided that you want to sell your intellectual output, and maybe that’s OK, and maybe it’s not, but it’s a free choice. I was hoping for a closing argument about how thou…

Be a little careful, because I think you're reading a Stack Overflow question recast as a blog post (Spolsky just moved his blog from CityDesk --- can you believe he was still using CityDesk? --- to WordPress, and so I guess we'll be seeing some more stuff like this on it). People are less careful capturing all angles of an issue on forums than they are in blog posts.

I assume Stack Overflow is just like most big software shops, in that if you have a side project you want to work on and be severable from your employer, you just fill out a little form and get it signed by your manager.

You'd be pushing things to take it further than that, but I'll add anyways: if they're like most firms (and I have every reason to think they would be, since they're famously dev-friendly), even if you didn't follow this process, they're not going to fuck with you. It would be terrible for their own business.

But if you're going to take a side project and turn it into a business, it behooves you to do things by the book, because the worst possible problems for a startup to have are the kind that don't become apparent until after your project is successful.

(Also: Spolsky is the CEO of Stack Overflow; Anil Dash is the CEO of Fog Creek.)

Re: Developers’ side projects

#49

Post by izacus »

lomnakkus wrote: post #8
maerF0x0 wrote: post #4

This gets super muddied when you consider doing FOSS contributions as part of your work. Sure you can sign a contributor agreement, but its not yours to give away. The employer owns the code you contributed to a FOSS project. The project got the signature from the wrong entity.

> The employer owns the code you contributed to a FOSS project. I think this is a pretty US-only type thing; at least it's not very common in Europe. Usually (in Europe) ownership of code depends entirely on when you did the coding -- if it's on your own time you own the code. If it's when you're at work then obviously it's the company's code. Of course there are the usual caveats about "is it too closely related to…

A lot of EU countries also recognise the concept of so-called "Moral rights" at copyright which cannot be given away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights

Re: Developers’ side projects

#50

Post by uiri »

dpc59 wrote: post #42
nostromo wrote: post #31

This is a good article, but the "let them eat cake"-iness of the last paragraph is pretty chilling. > the only way to gain independence is to be independent. Being an employee of a high tech company whose product is intellectual means that you have decided that you want to sell your intellectual output, and maybe that’s OK, and maybe it’s not, but it’s a free choice. I was hoping for a closing argument about how thou…

It ticks me off how a lot of managers always forget about how the job market is a buyer's market when they write about it.

Don't you mean a seller's market? A buyer's market would be in favour of the employer (they are buying labour).

A job isn't a product that is bought by employees.

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