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Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise

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Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#391

Post by qsera »

estearum wrote: post #383
qsera wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not really an evidence unless you yourself eliminate any biases or flaws in the trial methodology. Even trained professionals fail to do that regularly...

No, not really. The correct claim is "all evidence is imperfect." But an FDA approved, Phase 3, double-blinded, placebo-controlled randomized trial is the strongest form of evidence that we have for anything at all.

If it is not good enough, then it does not matter if it is the best available. Nature does not give a damn what the best solution humanity can come up with at some arbitrary point in time.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#392

Post by estearum »

qsera wrote: post #391
estearum wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not really. The correct claim is "all evidence is imperfect." But an FDA approved, Phase 3, double-blinded, placebo-controlled randomized trial is the strongest form of evidence that we have for anything at all.

If it is not good enough, then it does not matter if it is the best available. Nature does not give a damn what the best solution humanity can come up with at some arbitrary point in time.

It is absolutely good enough lol. We have effective statistical certainty in the results.

Tell me: how do you know the food you eat is safe? How about the water? The air? Do you take any other medicines?

All of those are less well-understood than the COVID vaccines.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#393

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

netsharc wrote: post #322
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There wasn’t a single successful phase3 trail of any mRNA vaccine in human or animal before the Covid vaccines were deployed. No /s

There also was never a successful manned landing on the moon before Apollo 11 did it..

Was the entire world put in that tin can?

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#394

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

epistasis wrote: post #191
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They confirmed this when the vaccines were authorized No. They didn’t. They said it. You were the Phase3 trial. You can probably debate the ethicality, the decisions made, but do not pretend they had 5 year data before deploying to the entire world. Facts matter.

It's quite odd for a person to assert falehoods while also saying "facts matter." Dec 11 2020- publication of phase 2/3 trial results, meaning not only was the study fully completed, but it made it through peer review too: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 Dec 11 - 2020: first authorization https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/health/pfizer-vaccine-aut...

A rushed phase3 was completed and there was no chance it wasn’t going to be.

You know damn well that wasn’t even remotely the normal process.

It’s ok, you don’t need to pretend anything about Covid was “by the book”.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#395

Post by jasonvorhe »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #339
swingboy wrote: post #67

Serious question in good faith: what was the deal with the “calamari” (clots?) the anti-vax crowd kept talking about being found in the veins/arteries of folks who took the Covid vaccine?

[flagged]

Down votes are expected. I'm sure these people are just sooo anti-vax that they'd fake all this to scare people: https://andrewjchapman.substack.com/p/what-the-embalmers-are...

Don't follow the link if you're screamish.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#396

Post by _heimdall »

defrost wrote: post #352
_heimdall wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paper I shared actually doesn't support the claim of preventing infection. The trials showed a minimal risk of adverse responses to the injection itself and what appeared to be a reduced rate of symptoms. The trials didn't cover impact on infection rates at all, that would have required proactively testing every participant for infection which wasn't done. The trials only followed self reported symptoms, meaning…

The paper linked shows a reduced rate of COVID in the pool of people that received a vaccine candidate compared to the pool that received a placebo: A total of 43,548 participants underwent randomization, of whom 43,448 received injections: 21,720 with BNT162b2 and 21,728 with placebo. There were 8 cases of Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose among participants assigned to receive BNT162b2 and 1…

I think we are saying the same thing in slightly different ways.

Agreed, they found fewer cases of Covid, the disease not the infection, based on self report data from the two test populations. They did not test the entire population for CoV-2 infection, if they did a difference in 8 cases may not have been considered statistically significant depending on what they intended to show.

My claims here have nothing to do with whether vaccines prevent infection or that 100% is a realistic expectation. I'm simply pointing out that what was actually tested and reported in the trials can't be used to support claims of reducing infection or transmissibility. If that's what the OP paper here is doing I call BS.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#397

Post by _heimdall »

estearum wrote: post #188
vfclists wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the citations supporting your view that the vaccines were effective at preventing infection?

You can look up the clinical trial results

One of them is already linked above. The trials didn't test efficacy in reducing infection or transmission, only in reducing symptoms.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#398

Post by cogman10 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #375
Sammi wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not 100% sure but I think it was this: Never inject into a vein. Always inject into a muscle.

Yes, they mandated a test to check if it was being injected into a vein.

Pretty common test as well, pull the plunger back on the syringe if blood comes up you hit a vein.

A lot of drugs have this test, particularly drugs that should be injected in fat or muscle.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#399

Post by cogman10 »

cedws wrote: post #81
swingboy wrote: post #67

Serious question in good faith: what was the deal with the “calamari” (clots?) the anti-vax crowd kept talking about being found in the veins/arteries of folks who took the Covid vaccine?

IIRC the vaccines were provably linked to the death of young people who had blood clots they shouldn't have had. The common argument made is that the vaccine saved more lives than they took, but this is pretty fucked up IMO. It's the trolley problem IRL - if you force someone to get a vaccine and they die as a result, you are responsible for their death. Also, the manufacturers can never be held responsible, because…

> but this is pretty fucked up IMO

Pretty much every medication can have bad interactions. There is always a "risk/reward" analysis.

But also, the vaccines linked to those kids deaths weren't the mRNA vaccines, it was the J&J vaccine which got pulled as a result.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#400

Post by epistasis »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #394
epistasis wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite odd for a person to assert falehoods while also saying "facts matter." Dec 11 2020- publication of phase 2/3 trial results, meaning not only was the study fully completed, but it made it through peer review too: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 Dec 11 - 2020: first authorization https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/health/pfizer-vaccine-aut...

A rushed phase3 was completed and there was no chance it wasn’t going to be. You know damn well that wasn’t even remotely the normal process. It’s ok, you don’t need to pretend anything about Covid was “by the book”.

The facts are not in your side, but you certainly do have a lot of unfounded FUD.
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