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Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise

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Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#341

Post by _heimdall »

defrost wrote: post #203
_heimdall wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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The issue specifically is: early claims of vaccines preventing infection or even spread weren't supported by the trials. Who made such stupid claims and __why__? My own recollection, from Australia watching the US, was the the US political administration of the time turned any scientific based discussion into a complete shit show - many images of cowered CDC employees sucking their faces in while Trump v1.0 babbled o…

Okay got it, I didn't expect that was what you were taking issue with. At least in the US, we were constantly being told by our government leadership that we all needed to take the vaccine to stop the spread.

Fauci, for example, claimed very early on that we needed herd immunity and would get thee with around a 60% vaccination rate. He both knew that number was too low for the hypothesis of herd immunity, raising it as time went on, and that herd immunity requires a treatment to prevent transmission, implying the vaccines were known to do that (they weren't).

More egregiously there was a political push, picked up by the media as well, that basically boiled down to an argument that anyone refusing the vaccine is actively killing old people and children. They would go so far as to say unvaccinated people shouldn't be allowed into hospitals for care for unrelated health conditions.

All that to say, my point was simply that this review paper seems to be making claims that would require research I never saw happen. Sadly the pay wall means I can't read their full claims, but even the overview of their results seem dubious.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#342

Post by jasonvorhe »

anonzzzies wrote: post #309
dehrmann wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dismissing people like this is part of what fuels the antivax movement. Vaccines are generally effective, but they're not perfect and have side effects, and failing to acknowledge that when someone is asking in in good faith polarizes people and makes it look like someone's trying to hide something.

I lost friends during covid who turned into morons like that; so much so that I started to think maybe it is a side effect of the virus. One of them recently moved to the other side of the world 'because Trump is going to nuke us' (he lived in the EU). It is fine to dismiss, ignore and berate morons; they won't change their mind and must have been always like that; just before covid everyone would've laughed in your…

I also lost friends during COVID. Some because they suddenly died of cancer in their early 30s.

"vapor trails" - well, if helps you sleep better.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#343

Post by _heimdall »

defrost wrote: post #204
vfclists wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the citations supporting your view that the vaccines were effective at preventing infection?

_heimdall provides one here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48755933

The paper I shared actually doesn't support the claim of preventing infection.

The trials showed a minimal risk of adverse responses to the injection itself and what appeared to be a reduced rate of symptoms. The trials didn't cover impact on infection rates at all, that would have required proactively testing every participant for infection which wasn't done. The trials only followed self reported symptoms, meaning all the study can indicate is a correlation with reduced symptomatic infection.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#344

Post by no-name-here »

qsera wrote: post #269
no-name-here wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your own logic supports the opposite from your conclusions? I'm saying that every developed country's medical bodies support that these vaccines are safe. Are you claiming that every developed country's medical bodies do not have an incentive to make the right decisions around vaccines? That they will be too cautious because they are afraid of approving something that turns out to be unsafe, or the opposite t…

>Are you claiming that every developed country's medical bodies do not have an incentive to make the right decisions around vaccines? It is a question of how aligned the individual's incentives and the incentives of the medical body in question. And often it is extremely misaligned. So that is what is I mean when I said there is "no incentive". So what do I mean by that? When such an organization recommend X, it just…

I'm still unsure if you think there is any other even theoretical approach than trusting developed countries' medical bodies that would have better outcomes, or if you believe the approach I mentioned is the absolute optimal possible one.

Regardless, as far as the statistics about things like how vaccines changed covid deaths, and any change in non-covid deaths, a study of tens of millions of people found a very large drop in covid deaths among the vaccinated... and actually no increase in other cause morbidity either (different study than the OP study). https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#345

Post by jasonvorhe »

bad_username wrote: post #244
fivetenpen wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were never meant to prevent people from getting COVID. They were meant to prevent people from dying due to COVID. The fact they were able to tell you they had COVID means it was a resounding success (not dead).

> They were never meant to prevent people from getting COVID. "COVID-19 vaccination will help keep you from getting COVID-19" - https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/97780/ You see, this kind of lying and gaslighting is exactly what feeds the distrust in the government and scientific establishment in general public. No number of studies is going to reverse that any time soon.

In every public hearing, all pharma execs stated that they never tested and verified that they prevent transmission.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#346

Post by jasonvorhe »

koonsolo wrote: post #327
tlogan wrote: post #130

If these mRNA vaccines had not been pushed or mandated, more people would probably think they are safe: there will be no need for any of these reviews. But because they were pushed by the government, many people do not trust them. Sure, they were pushed and mandated for good reasons, but the problem is that a lot of people have already lost trust in the government. That trust was not lost because of one big decision.…

And it all got a nice little push from Russian disinfo, who took the opportunity to discredit governments even more. Why do you think all the anti-vaxxers all of a sudden got pro-Russian and anti-Ukraine? Coincidence?

Iraq had WMDs, Hamas beheaded babies and the Western public is completely immune of government-led psyops. Of course there's neither Nazis/Banderites/ultranationalists nor biolabs nor the most corrupt government on the european continent in Ukraine.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#347

Post by jasonvorhe »

petilon wrote: post #29
timr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This administration literally fast-tracked the original covid vaccines for approval. Say what you will about the Covid vaccine or Kennedy’s specific motivations (which I disagree with), but choosing to cut government funding for development of wildly profitable pharmaceutical products is a reasonable choice.

Not many people know that Trump had a hand in starting the pandemic. Here's what we know: In 2014, Obama administration halted the so called "gain of function" research because of risk of laboratory accidents. In 2017, the Trump administration restarted this dangerous research. See links below. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/white-house-to-cut-fun... Excerpt: [Obama administration] White House announced Friday…

[flagged]

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#348

Post by jasonvorhe »

wrs wrote: post #78
dogwalker5000 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, they literally put an antivaccer in charge of the health department.

I'm honestly surprised they didn't put a flat-earther in charge of NASA.

NASA founder and Project Paperclip imported Nazi scientist Werner von Braun's tombstone references Psalms 19:1:

> "The heavens declare the almighty of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#349

Post by qsera »

no-name-here wrote: post #344
qsera wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are you claiming that every developed country's medical bodies do not have an incentive to make the right decisions around vaccines? It is a question of how aligned the individual's incentives and the incentives of the medical body in question. And often it is extremely misaligned. So that is what is I mean when I said there is "no incentive". So what do I mean by that? When such an organization recommend X, it just…

I'm still unsure if you think there is any other even theoretical approach than trusting developed countries' medical bodies that would have better outcomes, or if you believe the approach I mentioned is the absolute optimal possible one. Regardless, as far as the statistics about things like how vaccines changed covid deaths, and any change in non-covid deaths, a study of tens of millions of people found a very larg…

In that study are you aware if they looked at the vaccination status of the expired members in the unvaccinated group during their death?

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#350

Post by qsera »

watwut wrote: post #333
qsera wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They would change nothing.. But by this logic, this is exactly what pro-vax people advocate as well. If a child die right after vaccination, they will still advice people to vaccinate their other kids, because this was just an anomaly? So are all the pro-vax people maintaining the attitude that they would rather have their kid die or suffer life long than NOT getting the vaccine? The fallacy in your logic is that yo…

They did not said they were unlucky. They said that if they knew their kid will die without vaccine, they would still skip vaccine to protect the kid from bigger harm. They said that, not me. That is the problem here, you ignore what they are actually saying while twisting their position into much different and more palatable. It is consistent problem with right wing - insistence on ignoring what they say, push for a…

> They said that if they knew their kid will die without vaccine, they would still skip vaccine to protect the kid from bigger harm..

They probably didn't. Because what is "bigger harm" than death?

>You can do that only if you are intent on twisting conversations and meanings into unrecognizable.

Eh..what?

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