Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

netblocks.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 600 posts

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#381

Post by dvt »

WaxProlix wrote: post #374
dvt wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a bit like saying "the darkness is bad, so the solution is light, and if the light ever becomes blinding, the solution is more light" Completely untenable analogy. Why people say is that the solution is more speech is due to the antecedent concept of the marketplace of ideas and that, by and large, ideas are sifted via free speech and the good ones last while the bad ones die. You cannot have this sorting p…

> concept of the marketplace of ideas and that, by and large, ideas are sifted via free speech and the good ones last while the bad ones die This might be the core of it then, because while I generally agree with the idea of Free Speech in the abstract, I don't think that it's been having good outcomes for society in the era of the cultic milieu, and I think that has to do with this 'marketplace' idea not really hold…

The problem with alternatives to the "free marketplace of ideas" is that they are all (by definition) authoritative. And who's the best "authority" here? The government? Me? You? Who decides what ideas get to be censored? Imo, there's more problems with the authoritative model than the marketplace model.

Kind of like Churchill's famous quote about democracy: "it's the worst form of government, except from all the others that have been tried."

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#382

Post by Melatonic »

mrtksn wrote: post #20

Erdogan's first speech was almost 2 days after the earthquake and he said "We are monitoring who said what on the social media and tried to provoke the people. Today it's not the day to go after those but we take notes and when the day comes, we will go after them". Just look at his face when delivering this speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doy38aKbMw4 It's like from V for Vendetta. The lighting choice is very…

I completely agree but we also really need to move past Twattered being the social media of choice for change.

edit: Did I just get downvoted by Elon personally? Win!

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#383

Post by LarryMullins »

coffeeblack wrote: post #327
LarryMullins wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or was is it just comparing the way the police worked in general? This one. When the local odds aren't in their favor, they go home and arrest people later at their leisure.

Assuming that these armed people actually broke the law, that’s the better move then. Otherwise there would be a huge outbreak of violence. But that’s not really comparable to lawful protests.

I am comparing the law enforcement tactics, not the reasons for the protests. The protests themselves being incomparable is irrelevant.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#384

Post by empathy_m »

thanatropism wrote: post #346

Are we avoiding "Turkiye" as an expression of anti-Erdogan politics? Is it ok to call Kinshasa the capital of Rhodesia?

I think the media is slow to catch up on this stuff, yeah.

The AP's article[1] on the Türkiye rename was datelined from "ANKARA, Turkey (AP)" :)

I don't know whether the delay is necessarily a matter of political preference or just general slowness in English-language media. The press does a good job of changing the names of sports arenas whenever the advertiser sponsorship causes a rename. This kind of inside-baseball use-of-names media stuff is something I used to see on Jim Romenesko's blog 20 years ago and it doesn't really have a good home now.

It can't be all politics; although the US government still prefers "Rangoon" and "Burma", most of the press writes "Yangon" and "Myanmar".

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#385

Post by VanTheBrand »

alphanullmeric wrote: post #360
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've missed the point. It's not desirable to have listings which contain false advertising; the remedy for that is to restrict false advertising, not make every buyer chase the seller in a contract dispute after the fact. That would be insanity.

Nope, your comparison is just not equivalent. A sale is a transfer of property. We enforce the implicit contract that goes along with that. The buyer will pay, the seller will deliver, the product is accurate, etc. This discussion is about speech, for which no such contract exists. If you disagree, then you should have no problem arresting people for showing off a 3 watt bulb they claim to be 5 watts.

You are getting lost in the weeds of an imperfect metaphor.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#386

Post by ycombinete »

barbazoo wrote: post #161
alphanullmeric wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiously, all the people that support such censorship in western countries are actually against it in this instance. Almost like whether or not they choose to support a policy depends not on what it does but instead on who it’s being done to.

I hope you actually went and asked everybody.

yes, I found that claim bizarre as well. How does one even form such an opinion about "everyone" who holds x opinion?

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#387

Post by 4gotunameagain »

actionfromafar wrote: post #265
4gotunameagain wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the US orchestrating coup after coup all over the globe a desirable rational actor ? The reality is that it will take multiple generations for us to get rid politicians who when zoomed out act like teenage boys, and we can argue all we want.

USA - "Hello, my name is the US of A." Everybody - "Welcome, US of A." USA - "Today I haven't orchestrated a coup in (checks paper)[0] ... six years?" *applause* 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

My money is on France for this one, but you never know..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Guinean_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#388

Post by LarryMullins »

mjburgess wrote: post #380
alphanullmeric wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, your comparison is just not equivalent. A sale is a transfer of property. We enforce the implicit contract that goes along with that. The buyer will pay, the seller will deliver, the product is accurate, etc. This discussion is about speech, for which no such contract exists. If you disagree, then you should have no problem arresting people for showing off a 3 watt bulb they claim to be 5 watts.

Advertising is speech; there is no sale.

If there is to be no sale, then is it really advertising at all? If I "advertise" that I own a thing with no intention of selling that thing, then laws about honest advertisement don't apply to me.

My car (not for sale) has a nuclear reactor and can travel through time.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#389

Post by gameman144 »

vkou wrote: post #354
alphanullmeric wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your scenario is not equivalent. A buyer and seller shake on an implicit contract when a purchase is made, and enforcement of a contract you agreed to is not censorship. A more accurate comparison would be me posting a picture of a 3 watt bulb online, claiming it is a 5 watt bulb. I don’t believe that should be illegal, and you would if you were consistent.

No, his scenario is not equivalent, but here's a few more: "Hello, this is just a reminder that your voting station will be open between 5 pm and 9 pm in (somewhere where it's not actually located), please remember to vote!" "Hello, if you would like a free ride to your voting station, please text us 'YES', and wait at (location) between X and Y pm (Nobody will show up)." "Hello, we have a great offer for auto insura…

Just so I'm clear, is your argument that these statements should be censored?

Lots of these seem reprehensible, but totally within a reasonable space of legitimate free speech. Barring the cases with calls for imminent harm (e.g. turbulent priests and such), it seems that there's a big risk in trying to draw a legal line here.

In your polling station example, for instance, that has some clear negative impact. If I instead said "The library will be closed for the next month", is that protected though? What if I say "Arby's will be giving out free sandwiches from noon to two o'clock tomorrow"? All of these statements have negative impact.

The rationale for more extensive free speech is that it is expected that individuals have the right to hear what others are saying, and evaluating how bogus those are.

To be clear, some censorship is absolutely accepted in society today (e.g. libel laws, imminent threats, marketplace standards, etc), but the fear of an ill-defined line that can be shifted to suit political winds seems like a very reasonable one.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#390

Post by bratbag »

0xDEF wrote: post #227
seydor wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A person who dislikes Turkish ultra-nationalists and fear what fake news might make them do to refugees is not exactly an "erdobot".

No, an account that pretends to care about those things when using them as an excuse to shut down communication that makes the government look bad.
Post reply on HN