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Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

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Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who, or what exactly are you talking about?

People are afraid of being cast out of the community because of the CoC, are they not?

I guess for what they'd consider unjust and bullshity reasons that have nothing to do with the project, yes. Publicised instances such as donglegate, opalgate, drupalgate, Brendan Eich all fit that mold.

But really I'm just wondering when you say things like "they did drag us down and ruin things for everybody", who exactly are you talking about? Examples? Every group will have its pariahs but I don't see hacker culture as being "ruined for everyone". Quite the opposite. They do eschew social norms, which I guess is more of a problem since open-source has been taken over by big business with the usual endless need for bureaucracy and PR.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#382
post #341

> I'm still not exactly the most empathetic person. > But I'm hoping I can at least 'fake it until I > make it'. This is great! If you ask me, "faking it" is really just as good as "actually" being a more helpful or empathetic person. What do you think "actually" being a helpful or empathetic person is like? It's basically just continually expending the effort to be helpful and empathetic. Let's say my brother calls…

Depends entirely on how good you are at faking it. That is, if it can be easily seen that you are faking; then no, it is not as good. Not even close. Your brother scenario is silly. If someone calls and I don't want to help, but can. I'll be honest and make my own choice. If they ask if this is what I'd truly like to be doing, I'll always say no. However, in most cases, I don't actually care what I'm doing. Could I c…

To me the more important factor for whether “faking it” is adequate is what one’s motivation is. If it is merely as an act of fakery because other people expect something, then it’s a lot more like to be an act without merit. If it’s an integral part of striving towards being genuinely able to exhibit the behavior in question, then it’s a lot more likely to be received well.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always. Some of the best feedback I've ever gotten was when I was told that what I wrote was "crap". What's not constructive about that feedback? When people use the word "constructive", what they actually mean is "nice" and "won't hurt my ego."

"Not always. Some of the best feedback I've ever gotten was when I was told that what I wrote was "crap". What's not constructive about that feedback?" reply " No. Saying something is 'crap' may be true, but it's definitely not constructive. 'Constructive' feedback helps you understand why it's wrong. So, 'constructive' would be: "hey that code was very problematic, and here are the reasons why: etc. etc. etc.." "Whe…

I abhor this kind of advice. "Hey this code was very problematic ..." is incredibly grating and I would think a lot less of a supervisor that chose to give feedback with such a veil.

Not sure about "This code is crap", but claiming it is less constructive than your example is a very superficial reading. A supervisor who told me "Your code is crap" would seem a lot more inviting than one who put the condescending remark you offered. It's a lot more constructive because it reminds me (a) that my supervisor expects more and (b) my supervisor expects more from me (i.e. both I know what to do to fix it and my supervisor thinks this is a lapse and I'm competent).

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not virtue signaling because there's actually action behind the words. If there was just a statement without change or action, it would be virtue signaling.

Thank you. I get it now. It's one of those terms I'd heard often but never completely understood.

Virtue signaling can involve action. I disagree with the above definition.

Actually a really strong signal is an action that is a sacrifice, regardless of whether it has a real positive impact.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people don't have the cognitive ability to hit the perfect mixture of expressing every necessary criticism with sufficient force, without hurting any feelings more than absolutely necessary, without taking energy away from completing other tasks. It would be nice if we could find a person who was a world class 100x programmer AND project organizer AND had decades of sustained high productivity AND had absolut…

Linus himself is saying he can and should do better.

Under duress. Let's not pretend it's some organic evolution in his personality, he has been pressured into this new position.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#386

I'm probably a person with not so great social skills. I'm a person of color. I do not need SJW's to defend me. Please do not destroy our culture. All of a sudden this movement to add "diversity" and other crap is just not right. I agree there is some casual racism/racism for the sake of racism in the community, but I am personally not even bothered and it has never affected me (I ignored them and they stopped and so…

"Every community has a different culture so if you cannot adopt what everyone is following, maybe this industry is not right for you."

When I was growing up, being a nerd or a geek or, in fact, any kind of intellectual was regarded as a bad thing. I found some outright harassment, a considerable amount of belittling, and a whole lot of lack of interest. (The 57th time you are asked if you play football or basketball, you say "no", and someone immediately looses all interest, you may be forgiven for wondering if it's you.) Thinking about it, I don't remember ever seeing the inside of the restrooms in my jr. high or high school.

I learned to keep myself to myself. I learned to avoid talking about my interests to anyone; they didn't understand and didn't care to, and I'm not a good communicator. I never had any serious abuse, but I learned to pity those who couldn't put a mask on when necessary.

Fortunately, I picked the right time and have had a career making roughly twice the median household income. (And I've made some poor choices there; I could have done much better.) (There weren't many darkies where I grew up, but I sometimes wonder how many of the wetbacks who went to even worse schools than I did can say something similar.)

Now, the situation is reversed. Not playing video games will get you looked at funny. Being a geek or nerd is a good thing. It's certainly the easiest way to make money. But one thing I've also learned is that every social group puts barriers up to keep out people who are not different in the right way.

So here I sit, a professional programmer and a tolerably good one, and I find the defense, not of the right to be a jackass, but of the act of being a jackass troubling. I don't necessarily think the added layers of a code of conduct are a good thing. On the other hand, your last paragraph is spectacularly unappealing. If you can't not be a jackass in public, maybe this industry isn't for you.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#387
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was a way to get more of those ideas to me, and people in general, and less of the "I drink white male tears".

We used to recognize "flamewars" and "flamebait" a lot more readily online and encourage people to not get sucked in. To separate their opinions from a shouting match that is destined to go nowhere, even when they have a stake in the topic. Now... we don't. And I fully cast the blame at the feet of those who have found a way to profit from starting and participating in shouting matches online. This includes 95+% of j…

Part of the problem is that there isn't really a cohesive community on something like Twitter. It's just a mass of people. For a group to be able to deal with bad actors, there needs to be something resembling a group boundary which can be policed and defended. Twitter lets anybody waltz into any conversation they want.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus himself is saying he can and should do better.

Under duress. Let's not pretend it's some organic evolution in his personality, he has been pressured into this new position.

Sometimes you have to be nudged towards the right direction. But change comes from inside. You’re being rather insulting to Linus if you assume he’s just a pawn being moved from the outside here instead of moving on his own accord.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for providing a glimpse into a mind bending gymnastics one might need to engage in to convince himself or herself that it is different somehow: this is actually why work references are absolutely useless - people love to coddle incompetence in order to be perceived as "nice bosses". If someone's being unable to do a job is management's fault ( in this case yours, since you are the manager of the person that…

Wow. This...uh. There's a lot of shitty to unpack in this post. First: I've never had to fire somebody I hired. I have had to fire people I inherited . It doesn't suck less, but given your odd attempt at turning this into a referendum on people who aren't big on jerkass coworkers, I feel like it helps complete the picture. Second: firing people is rather unlike "coddling". Third: that I have fired people does not mea…

Your website's cert has expired nearly a week ago. Competency is clearly overrated in the land of empathetic bosses.

Edit:

So I address for this being a dig. It is an observation. Those who are empathetic eventually spend all of their time talking about feels rather than addressing issues. Time is a finite resource. Sooner or later ( typically sooner rather than later ) one needs to decide what he or she is going to value more : competency or empathy.

Also, I apologize if me noticing a bad cert was hurtful.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#390
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s essentially a cliché false dichotomy. Wouldn’t it be even nicer to work with someone who can express how they feel in a constructive and helpful manner?

sure but I can't realistically expect everyone to be nice, Isn't better for me to always try to prepare myself for the fact that anyone can be rude and unhelpful ?

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