Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#381

Post by k-mcgrady » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 1:32 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #372

k-mcgrady wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common in lots of places outside the US. You have a few choices: 1. Live with parents Not something most people want to do past a certain age. 2. Live with friends People seem to be moving abroad more these days leaving you with friends all over the world, but possibly none currently in the city you live in. 3. Live with significant other Fine until the relationship ends and someone needs to move. 4. Live with s…

> Where are you from that sharing a home with strangers is such a strange concept? Sweden. When I went to university, I had a student apartment. It was cheap and tiny , 18m^2. There was a slightly cheaper student housing option where you would share a living room and a kitchen with other people, but in those everyone has their own private bedroom and bathroom with their own front door. Some of my friends rented regul…

Interesting thanks for the info. I'm in the UK and generally here if you go to University you will get a student accommodation for the first. Then you'll get your own apartment with friends for the remaining years and this would generally carry on until you're in a serious relationship and can share accommodation with your partner. Personally having also tried the living by myself thing for a year I much prefer sharing a house with a few other people (and I'm very introverted). Living by yourself quickly becomes very lonely and living with new people quite regularly is a great way to meet friends and learn about other cultures, particularly if you're living in a cosmopolitan city. Of course the main issue is still cost but for I know a lot of people that can afford a 1br apartment but would see that as a waste of money when sharing is much cheaper with few downsides (unless you get stuck with terrible room mates, but generally people are ok).

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#382

Post by codingmyway » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 1:50 PM UTC

verbify wrote: post #244

codingmyway wrote: post #201

I'm contemplating this right now. I work in London because the extra money over working elsewhere in the UK more than pays the rent and I know people here now. I if lived further out and commuted then the cost of transport would almost wipe out the rental saving and I'd have two hours+ commute everyday instead of a healthier cycle through the park. I could get a remote job for half the money and that would be worth i…

If there's a financial crisis: * You're more likely to lose your job or find it difficult to switch jobs, which will impact your earnings * Banks are less likely to give easy lines of credit, making it difficult to get a mortgage Timing the housing market is as difficult as timing any market - time in the market beats timing the market.

Maybe. 2008 to 2012 were actually the best years for me, both for life and jobs. I even managed to get a contract straight back from my travels in 2010 at a rate that I haven't beaten since. The economy didn't totally shut down. My issue was getting a mortgage but if I hadn't had a gap I could have got one even then as I had a good deposit.

It's the aftermath of QE and years of zero rates that I wasn't prepared for so it turned out to be a very expensive break.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#383

Post by Anderkent » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 2:04 PM UTC

branchless wrote: post #379

Anderkent wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why accept it? Westerners don't understand how their economies work to pass surplus value to the non-productive Why do you think it's a question of understanding, rather than a moral obligation to help others?

The system decides. Charity after siphoning off labour is a poor second. http://savingcommunities.org/docs/george.henry/helpunemploye...

How does that connect to your previous statement?

Yes, the system (and the people who build and make up the system) decide to distribute wealth to 'non-productive' people. That's a good thing, exactly because charity of the 'productive' people is not reliable.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#384

Post by branchless » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 2:16 PM UTC

Anderkent wrote: post #383

branchless wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system decides. Charity after siphoning off labour is a poor second. http://savingcommunities.org/docs/george.henry/helpunemploye...

How does that connect to your previous statement? Yes, the system (and the people who build and make up the system) decide to distribute wealth to 'non-productive' people. That's a good thing, exactly because charity of the 'productive' people is not reliable.

We are talking at cross purposes. The system directs wealth to rentiers, they are non-productive. The rich are the non-productive. The system does not allocate resources correctly, it's totally flawed.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#385

Post by Arizhel » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 2:51 PM UTC

467568985476 wrote: post #368

Arizhel wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the other poster said, Hispanic people in general are extremely socially conservative and religious. They vote reliably Democrat because the GOP panders to white racists and people with anti-hispanic-immigration feelings. As soon as that changes and the GOP embraces them, they're going to be a very reliable GOP voting bloc; all the GOP has to do is promise to end abortion and pander to Catholicism, and they'll get…

Do you have any data that supports the assertion that liberal politics are on a strong downward trend? That struck me as odd and my (admittedly short) googling found a lot of evidence that the opposite is true.

Did you miss the November election? That should be proof enough.

Compare the anti-Vietnam-war protests of the early 1970s to the anti-Iraq-war protests in the 2000s... oh wait, there were no anti-war protests in the 2000s; everyone in America was all for that.

Compare the birthrates for liberal, irreligious people to conservative, religious people.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#386

Post by Anderkent » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 3:43 PM UTC

branchless wrote: post #384

Anderkent wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that connect to your previous statement? Yes, the system (and the people who build and make up the system) decide to distribute wealth to 'non-productive' people. That's a good thing, exactly because charity of the 'productive' people is not reliable.

We are talking at cross purposes. The system directs wealth to rentiers, they are non-productive. The rich are the non-productive. The system does not allocate resources correctly, it's totally flawed.

Then I think you need to talk in specifics, not general statements. When you compare our systems with the 'default' of having no system (i.e. anarcho-capitalism), it seems rentiers (i.e. owners of capital/land) are directed even more resources. So if you blame the system, you kinda have to be specific in what aspects you're blaming and how they could be improved.

It's also not necessarily bad that some wealth is directed to rentiers, if otherwise the wealthy would have no incentive to use their wealth productively.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#387

Post by septimus111 » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 3:49 PM UTC

LifeQuestioner wrote: post #226

septimus111 wrote: post #139

Here in the UK the difference between London vs the rest of the country is insane: I would love to live somewhere with a better quality of life but it's much harder to find a good job outside London. I wonder how much of the resistance to setting up offices in smaller cities is due to senior managers and engineers not wanting to move away because of kids / partners, or because at their level of income they can pretty…

Hmm, there's quite a few places in the UK I think you'd be surprised. The salary's are not as high - but they're still really high and outside of london you save mega moneys. Moved to Glasgow for a higher salary than I had in London, and where rent is 1/3 of the price. There's Edinburgh, Manchester(home of the bbc) (ranked as two of the best cities for tech in the UK, manchester for media city), Bristol, Bath, Newcas…

That does surprise me, in a good way! My concern, aside from salary, would be job security - in London it's possible to find a new job within days... I will look into Edinburgh :)

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#388

Post by true_tuna » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 8:55 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #145

rubicon33 wrote: post #38

I used to live in SF. It was exciting, but also shitty. I felt connected and alive, which was great, but also drained of resources, which really sucked. Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. I had the living room. Yea. I lasted 3 years, until I met my wife, and by then I was ready to move. We did. Now, life in the suburbs, is slow. I feel somewhat disconnected and like I don't really belong to this co…

> Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing. What on earth can make adults choose to share their home with a stranger? Why isn't there intense pressure for building many small apartments, rather than building larger apartments that are meant for roommates? Is it connected to the equally weird college dorm roommate system? Why are people ac…

California has adopted a system where new development requires approval from the people already there. If you like where you live you might block and attempt to change it. The evidence shows that in such a system people will block any and all proposed development, but being a great place to live with a vibrant economy and lots of job growth many new people arrive every year. More people need a place to live, no new housing == Crazy housing prices and everyone gets a roommate.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#389

Post by tropo » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 1:34 AM UTC

not_kurt_godel wrote: post #377

kzisme wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment resonates with me. After leaving university, and moving on to a full time position in a suburb I feel completely disconnected. I didn't attend a ~huge~ school, but the sense of community was there. The lack of this feeling has been hard to explain, but this comment explains it very well. I'm not sure if I will(or can) ever do something about this feeling either.

> in a suburb I feel completely disconnected Suburbs are fundamentally alienating and isolating in my experience. The physical distance between houses limits the number of people you're likely to meet and interact with in your locale. The need to drive everywhere disconnects you from your surroundings and community, as opposed to walking and biking whose physical aspect creates a tangible connection with your surroun…

There is a gated community in Florida actually named "The Cloisters". It has a guard house at the gate and it is surrounded by a concrete wall. You might expect this to be in a terrible city, but no! It's probably in one of the safest places in the whole state.

That's a bit over the top, but it is useful to able to quickly identify people with no good reason to be in the neighborhood. People can go their whole life without mugging or burglary.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#390

Post by tropo » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:29 AM UTC

Anderkent wrote: post #326

ryandrake wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this whole hang-up about restaurants. To me, "the number/type of restaurants in the area" is something I don't even consider when deciding if I want to live somewhere. Admittedly I'm not a restaurant guy. I pretty much never go to them. To me, they're just an expensive way to eat food. And they are a pain in that you need to do so much just to "enjoy" the experience. Get dressed up, drive or walk to the p…

People like different things. What a shock! > Same goes for nightclubs, museums, movie theaters, "culture". This is really why people want to live somewhere??? What do you do in the afternoons? Almost every home-hobby I can think of is improved by company of people with similar interests. Rather than do DYI in a garage, I'd rather go to a hackerspace. Rather than play the same N boardgames with the same X people, I'd…

Thank you for answering that. It's still totally alien, but thanks.

Small cities, under 100,000 people even, can have hackerspaces. Maybe they aren't to your standards. (local one here has CNC, laser cutter, 3D printers for plastic, etc.)

To not cook is odd. Even when I lived alone in Boston, I cooked my meals. If you cook, you can be sure that nobody: picked their nose before handling your food, spat in your food (politics maybe), sneezed on your food, scratched their ass before handling your food, failed to wash the salad, plucked out a mouse and called it good, etc.

There are only a few restaurants where you can dine naked, you'd be seen by others if you went there, and you might have to suffer seeing people that make you want to rip your eyes out. At home there is no problem.

While waiting for your food at home (as it cooks), you can spend time together. It's the same as what you get, but with privacy. You can be as politically incorrect as you like, you can cry or shout, you can hold a burping/farting contest, whatever.

At home there is less trouble with kids. I'm guessing you might be single... if yes, how do you find any meaning in life? I remember being single, and I found it to be horrible. There was such a feeling of my existence being pointless. I very nearly jumped off a bridge. So life without family is unfathomable, and family makes restaurants awkward. It takes consistent discipline to keep a crowd of them under control, meaning that one can not relax.

Restaurants are nearly always too dim. I suspect it is so you can't spot defects in the food. At home I can put a 4000 lumen bulb in every socket, which is 6x or 7x normal.

You can go as a group to the supermarket. You can cook as a group. If you want peer bonding, this does it.