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Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

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Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#351

Post by donretag »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #337
donretag wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work remote from central Los Angeles. The biking is incredible here. I mainly do hills and the Santa Monica/San Gabriel mountains provide some excellent climbing. There is very little traffic in the hilly parts of the city.

From central/Downtown LA, you can take Venice all the way to the beach with a dedicated bike lane. I rarely go on trails, as I only have a road bike. My favorite trip is to take the bus to somewhere north of Malibu and ride along the PCH for about 20 miles. Off-topic, but LA really does have great public transportation. It covers nearly the entire metro area such that you can get pretty much anywhere and only have to…

I never do trails either since all I have also is a road bike. There is a stretch of Mulholland, where it is a dirt road, that is technically passable with road tires, but I have yet to attempt it.

I like Ventura Blvd in the Valley to make it to the beach. It is congested at points earlier on (east), but then it clears out. Venice is busy almost the entire stretch.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#352

Post by evgen »

pm90 wrote: post #293
iplaw wrote: post #217

Just because developers can feasibly work from anywhere, especially remotely for already-established companies, do not immediately presume that it is best for developers to work from anywhere. Working remotely is not for everyone. Some people have problems with efficiency and procrastination when working from home or when working without immediate oversight. Some people have poor communication skills which are furthe…

> countless millionaires being made, I think its more accurate to say that countless millionaires that moved in . Austin still hasn't had its Google/Intel/Facebook yet.

Back when Austin, Round Rock, and Georgetown were actually places separated from each other by at least a mile or so of scrub and no development you had Dell and a couple of other early dot-com companies mint a large batch of nouveau riche techies who had dreams of 'the next big thing' happening in Austin. I left before the crash and the subsequent agglomeration of the entire area into a single contiguous mass of strip malls and condo complexes, but it seems to me that Austin has had its share of locally generated rich people as well.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#353

Post by maxfurman »

egocodedinsol wrote: post #51

Opinionated take about costs and benefits that doesn't make strong statements about whether remote work or onsite is better: For context: I moved from NYC to Philadelphia, to finish my thesis and be with my wife who works at the world's best children's hospital. I have lived in Portland, Chicago, and spent extensive time in Toronto. I haven't spent much time in SF. The change in cost of living is dramatic, and the qu…

Yes! Philly is the best.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#354

Post by lkrubner »

Have I been shadowbanned or something? Either something is wrong with the way my browser renders this page, or my comment was deleted from this page. My comment was here, I thought it was a good one:

https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=14035764&goto=threads%...

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#355

Post by Arizhel »

pm90 wrote: post #296
conductr wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Similar thing in all Texas metros. Although expats in Austin are certainly of the CA tech majority. I feel like all of TX is turning into CA.

Well, they do have many things in common: * Warm weather year round * Lots of great universities * Large hispanic population (and immigrants in general) * 2 largest states in the contiguous US The most glaring difference is probably the conservative politics. But that's mostly the rural areas. And the hispanic population may actually help change that. Note: not implying that all hispanic people automatically vote dem…

As the other poster said, Hispanic people in general are extremely socially conservative and religious. They vote reliably Democrat because the GOP panders to white racists and people with anti-hispanic-immigration feelings. As soon as that changes and the GOP embraces them, they're going to be a very reliable GOP voting bloc; all the GOP has to do is promise to end abortion and pander to Catholicism, and they'll get their votes automatically.

"Progressive" liberal politics are on a strong downward trend in the US. The people having kids are mostly very conservative and religious, and the immigrants from the south are very conservative and religious. The anti-immigrant bias from the GOP is likely temporary.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#356

Post by Arizhel »

ivanvanderbyl wrote: post #63
rdtsc wrote: post #25

Because there is no critical mass to "work from anywhere". Amazon/Facebook/Google/Microsoft doesn't let its workers work from home in general. A lot of tech companies don't as well. So moving to CheapSmallTown means when losing the job still having to go back to ExpensiveTechHub to network and find a new job. So might as well stay in ExpensiveTechHub just to be sure. Imagine if all those large tech companies and othe…

It's worth pointing out that the "big four" tech companies aren't the only tech companies worth working at. You could very well have a higher upside working at a small, remotely friendly company, from Chiang Mai or Bali where the cost of living is 1/15th of SF, and still have a relative mass of expats doing similar things. Speaking from experience, I'm much more relaxed working from Bali, and I get paid only 20% less…

>It's worth pointing out that the "big four" tech companies aren't the only tech companies worth working at.

They're not, but there's lots of other large-to-midsize tech companies out there that people don't mention when they mention the Big Four, because they're mostly the same. They're in the same locations, and work largely the same.

>You could very well have a higher upside working at a small, remotely friendly company, from Chiang Mai or Bali where the cost of living is 1/15th of SF, and still have a relative mass of expats doing similar things.

The problem here is: what happens when you get laid off? Now you're screwed, because you weren't getting paid much (you say you only get 20% of SF salaries; that won't even leave you enough left over to move back to the States and make a down-payment on a house or a 2-month deposit and 1st month's rent), so you don't have any savings worth anything, and now you're unemployed and have zero hope of a new job in some foreign country.

This is why attempts to "insource", or locate tech companies in cheaper parts of the US, never work out well. You can't get many workers to pack up and take a huge risk moving to the middle of nowhere, where there's only one employer. If they get laid off in a month or two, they're really screwed. So people stay in the tech-hub cities where there's plenty of other jobs in case something goes wrong. It's all about minimizing risk.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#357

Post by Arizhel »

georgiecasey wrote: post #138
adamors wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving to the US is not a rational decision in 2017.

take a random sample of 100 devs in Ukraine and India and offer them a green card to the US of A. how many do you think would take it? and for people who wouldn't, how many do you think would cite Trump as their reason?

That's not a good question. There have always been people who wouldn't have wanted to move to the US, for various reasons. People usually like to stay at home, in a culture they're familiar with, near people they know, unless something really pushes them to leave.

A better question is: take a random sample of 100 devs in Ukraine and India in early 2016 and offer them a green card, and then do the same today. How do the numbers compare? Now you're seeing how many people would have liked to come here, and now have changed their minds because of recent political events.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#358

Post by sjg007 »

Epenthesis wrote: post #282
taway_1212 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China. I feel like I'm rather average developer, and live in Poland (more expensive than the countries you listed), and still managed to save over…

> 7 k$ per month in my last remote gig . I'm saving that much on an ongoing basis at my full-time job in SF. I do have a roommate, but, to be honest, the weather alone makes it worth it.

then you make a lot.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#359

Post by Arizhel »

zephyrfalcon wrote: post #294

In spite of what the article claims, the vast majority of employers do NOT let you work remotely 100% of the time. They are mostly located in the big/expensive cities, so that's where developers will go. There's really no mystery there.

Not only that, but from what I can tell, telecommuting is becoming more and more rare. I'd guess that it hit a peak somewhere between 5 and 10 years ago. Now it's really hard to find a company that'll let you telecommute (I've been looking).

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#360

Post by lkrubner »

lkrubner wrote: post #354

Have I been shadowbanned or something? Either something is wrong with the way my browser renders this page, or my comment was deleted from this page. My comment was here, I thought it was a good one: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=14035764&goto=threads%...

I think maybe Hacker News is suffering some kind of glitch. I am not able to see any of my comments getting posted, but someone was able to downvote this previous comment, so I have to assume that this previous comment was being posted somewhere, even if I can't see it. It's a confusing situation where other people can see my comments, but I can not see them.
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