Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 408 posts

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#161

Post by reason_police »

> people with self-determination, i.e., a country, have decided

You know that's just flat out false, especially considering you've personally never been asked about it.

> countries agree to give up part of sovereignty

Again, you were not asked. Neither was any other ordinary person affected.

> the tourist visa explicitly has a number of terms and conditions

I brought up the idea of the Social Contract. You're talking about something completely unrelated, and thus not addressing my point.

But whatever. You're most likely just yet another psychopath spewing your bullshit, and this account is probably shadow-banned already, because I'm.. wrong?

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#162

Post by taway_1212 »

prostoalex wrote: post #23
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #16

If the type of development work you're doing can be easily done remotely, then there is a good chance it can be done much cheaper by a fantastic developer in Ukraine, or India, or China, or some country where wages are a lot cheaper than US or England or Canada. If, however, the type of work you're doing benefits from face-to-face interactions (i.e. quick iterations with lots of feedback from users, marketing and pro…

If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China. A rational decision then would be to move to Silicon Valley arbitraging the costs as much as you can (living with roommates, commuting by Cal…

> If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China.

I feel like I'm rather average developer, and live in Poland (more expensive than the countries you listed), and still managed to save over $7000 per month in my last remote gig. No roommates either (I live in a flat I own). I feel that I'd be MUCH worse off in SV, or in the US in general.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#163

Post by taway_1212 »

Swizec wrote: post #43
prostoalex wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China. A rational decision then would be to move to Silicon Valley arbitraging the costs as much as you can (living with roommates, commuting by Cal…

Yep. I moved to SF from Slovenia. The percentage of my income that I save* is smaller, but the absolute number is still bigger. Turns out the glass ceiling for "smart dirty immigrant" jobs is much higher than the ceiling for "remote dude" jobs as well. Add the nice bonus that there's simply more to do in a megalopolis of 6mio people than a city of 300k and it's kind of a no brainer. Unless of course you're okay stagn…

> Add the nice bonus that there's simply more to do in a megalopolis of 6mio people than a city of 300k and it's kind of a no brainer.

Can you give an example? I've lived in London before and I don't think I saw a single thing available there (that I was interested in) that wasn't available in much smaller cities. I mean, why do you need thousands of restaurants and nightclubs, when in a small city you still have dozens of them, and you don't need to suffer in the tube?

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#164

Post by xienze »

intoverflow2 wrote: post #153

What on earth is the point in working hard and earning a large salary if there is sod all to spend it on? If I were living in a small country town I'd be choosing a far more chilled job than I currently have because there isn't anything to spend the extra income on in a small town.

Nicer house (or just a house, period), vacations, toys, earlier retirement, children...

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#165

Post by Y_Y »

anovikov wrote: post #106
StavrosK wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you need a visa to go to Greece? Cypriot citizens can definitely travel to Greece with just their ID cards, but I'm not sure about immigrants.

Of course, because they are EU citizens. All EU citizens can travel freely. But immigrants need a visa since Cyprus is not in Schengen. This is the case with all non-Schengen EU countries, like, immigrants living in London need a visa to go to Paris, but a Romanian doesn't need visa to go to London. An immigrant in a Schengen country can travel to any other Schengen country plus new non-Schengen entrants: Cyprus, Rom…

Immigrants in the UK (right to remain, not just permanent resident) can travel freely in the EU (and CTA without even a passport).

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#166

Post by Anderkent »

henrikschroder wrote: post #145
rubicon33 wrote: post #38

I used to live in SF. It was exciting, but also shitty. I felt connected and alive, which was great, but also drained of resources, which really sucked. Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. I had the living room. Yea. I lasted 3 years, until I met my wife, and by then I was ready to move. We did. Now, life in the suburbs, is slow. I feel somewhat disconnected and like I don't really belong to this co…

> Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing. What on earth can make adults choose to share their home with a stranger? Why isn't there intense pressure for building many small apartments, rather than building larger apartments that are meant for roommates? Is it connected to the equally weird college dorm roommate system? Why are people ac…

> This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing

I think you're just sheltered; in every country in Europe that I lived in or had friends live in (Poland, UK, Portugal), students and young professionals flatshare. Or live with their parents, but it comes out to the same thing. If you're not already independently rich, you can't afford a single bedroom flat on your own.

The simple fact is that a two bedroom flat split two ways is always going to be cheaper than two single-bed flats. There's obvious efficiency in using the space effectively - no point in every single person having their own kitchen, bathroom, living room. Also, it makes sense that most flats built are 2-bedroom or bigger; that way they can be used both as flatshares for young people, and flats for families.

You don't have to live with someone you don't like - you get to pick your flatmates.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#167

Post by lucaspiller »

reason_police wrote: post #161

> people with self-determination, i.e., a country, have decided You know that's just flat out false, especially considering you've personally never been asked about it. > countries agree to give up part of sovereignty Again, you were not asked. Neither was any other ordinary person affected. > the tourist visa explicitly has a number of terms and conditions I brought up the idea of the Social Contract. You're talking…

>> people with self-determination, i.e., a country, have decided

> You know that's just flat out false, especially considering you've personally never been asked about it.

Assuming the country in question is democratic, and you are of legal voting age, then yes, you have been asked about it.

If you don't agree with certain laws you are free to vote for somebody who follows your views or stand yourself.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#168

Post by skj »

reason_police wrote: post #159
throwanem wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Familiarize yourself with Chesterton's fence. It might give you some insight into one of the reasons why your rhetoric finds no traction.

Nah. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Well that does it. I wasn't convinced before, but now I am.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#169

Post by apatters »

Speaking as a proponent of remote work, I think the reason is that remote workers are less productive in a _non-remote enabled culture._ And by default most companies are not remote enabled. They don't even understand what that means.

This is totally reasonable, as we still have very few examples of large, successful teams that are fully remote. Many of the ones we do have aren't actually companies, Linux kernel development being a good example. I don't think we yet have a single case we can point to of thousands of full-time employees working together remotely. Which means at the end of the day, enterprises still have to build or lease a huge box and stuff it full of people -- there is no well-understood alternative. They naturally end up building or leasing boxes that are nearby boxes built or leased by similar companies, and here we are.

The only real barriers to ever larger remote teams, though, are information, training and precedent. I doubt the tech industry will ever be more concentrated in a few megacities as it is today. Remote work in one form or another is on a 30 year upward trend.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#170

Post by Anderkent »

branchless wrote: post #147
henrikschroder wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing. What on earth can make adults choose to share their home with a stranger? Why isn't there intense pressure for building many small apartments, rather than building larger apartments that are meant for roommates? Is it connected to the equally weird college dorm roommate system? Why are people ac…

Why: because of the financialization of housing. Why accept it? Westerners don't understand how their economies work to pass surplus value to the non-productive.

> Why accept it? Westerners don't understand how their economies work to pass surplus value to the non-productive

Why do you think it's a question of understanding, rather than a moral obligation to help others?

Post reply on HN