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Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

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Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#371

Post by henrikschroder »

Anderkent wrote: post #166
henrikschroder wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing. What on earth can make adults choose to share their home with a stranger? Why isn't there intense pressure for building many small apartments, rather than building larger apartments that are meant for roommates? Is it connected to the equally weird college dorm roommate system? Why are people ac…

> This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing I think you're just sheltered; in every country in Europe that I lived in or had friends live in (Poland, UK, Portugal), students and young professionals flatshare. Or live with their parents, but it comes out to the same thing. If you're not already independently rich, you can't afford a single bedroom flat on your own. The simple fact is that a tw…

Thanks for your comment, and that of others. It appears that my culture is the odd one out where flatsharing is viewed very negatively.

Sure, it's not non-existent, I have many friends who have done it at some point in their lives, but it was always with existing friends. Advertising for a roommate, i.e. inviting a stranger to share your place is very unusual.

People's expectations of privacy are simply much higher.

The cheapest form of housing for college students is one where you share a kitchen and a living room with a bunch of other people, but everyone has their own private bedroom and bathroom with a door that locks. College dorms is just not done.

It is possible to rent a room in someone else's apartment, but usually in that arrangement the apartment is built such that the part that's rented out is a bit more off, has it's own bathroom, and has its own front door.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#372

Post by henrikschroder »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #194
henrikschroder wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing. What on earth can make adults choose to share their home with a stranger? Why isn't there intense pressure for building many small apartments, rather than building larger apartments that are meant for roommates? Is it connected to the equally weird college dorm roommate system? Why are people ac…

It's common in lots of places outside the US. You have a few choices: 1. Live with parents Not something most people want to do past a certain age. 2. Live with friends People seem to be moving abroad more these days leaving you with friends all over the world, but possibly none currently in the city you live in. 3. Live with significant other Fine until the relationship ends and someone needs to move. 4. Live with s…

> Where are you from that sharing a home with strangers is such a strange concept?

Sweden.

When I went to university, I had a student apartment. It was cheap and tiny, 18m^2. There was a slightly cheaper student housing option where you would share a living room and a kitchen with other people, but in those everyone has their own private bedroom and bathroom with their own front door. Some of my friends rented regular, small apartments in the city. Some shared apartments, but always with existing friends, people they'd known for a while and knew they'd get along with.

As you exit university, you lose your student housing, but if you have a job you can usually afford a small apartment, a studio or a 1BR. The amount of people sharing an apartment with others at this age is even lower.

Eventually, most people get into a relationship, and move into a larger home as needed, and this is where the attitudes between the US and Sweden are the most similar, if you have a family and kids, most people get a house of their own.

One difference between the US and Sweden though is that there is strong political pressure for construction companies to build small apartments. In the US there's political pressure to build low-income housing and accessible housing, but for some reason no pressure for making sure everyone gets their own apartment?

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#373

Post by jacmoe »

jacmoe wrote: post #4

Because developers are social animals too?

Did I say something wrong?

I mean that it is only natural that like minded people seeks one another, and group up in clusters.

It is human nature.

Yes, it's expensive, but there are also opportunity, and humans are opportunistic creatures.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#374

Post by phil21 »

kzisme wrote: post #278
rubicon33 wrote: post #38

I used to live in SF. It was exciting, but also shitty. I felt connected and alive, which was great, but also drained of resources, which really sucked. Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. I had the living room. Yea. I lasted 3 years, until I met my wife, and by then I was ready to move. We did. Now, life in the suburbs, is slow. I feel somewhat disconnected and like I don't really belong to this co…

This comment resonates with me. After leaving university, and moving on to a full time position in a suburb I feel completely disconnected. I didn't attend a ~huge~ school, but the sense of community was there. The lack of this feeling has been hard to explain, but this comment explains it very well. I'm not sure if I will(or can) ever do something about this feeling either.

> I'm not sure if I will(or can) ever do something about this feeling either

Why? Suburban life might be the worst social ill the US has ever faced. If you're starting the mental spiral downward, pick up and move. Plenty of jobs in plenty of cities that aren't wildly expensive, but still are walkable (in certain areas) and have things going on and a normal community.

I know some folks thrive in the suburbs, but I really think it's the single worst long-term policy decision any country has made in terms of the damage it did to community and a sense of togetherness.

I travel a decent amount now, and I am absolutely amazed at how some supposedly "destitute" communities seem far happier than the faux-rich suburban communities in the US. In my opinion the social stratification and divisiveness we're seeing today (e.g. a lack of a sense of togetherness) is directly due to a generation completely cut off from each other in the pursuit of getting away from undesirables and giant houses.

I completely understand folks who would prefer to live in a rural community - but those who prefer to live in the suburbs I just cannot understand. It seems like the absolute worst of both worlds to me.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#375

Post by mfukar »

anovikov wrote: post #341
mfukar wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as an aside, Cyprus is in the process of joining Schengen "soon", along with Romania, Bulgaria, & Croatia.

I think Cyprus will resist entering Schengen with all means available, and Greeks are known for their skill of protracting any negotiations indefinitely. So, not any time soon.

Why? Cyprus has nothing but to gain from joining Schengen. Where does Greece come in? EU citizens can already travel freely in Cyprus [1], so why would you say GR doesn't want Cyprus in Schengen?

[1] http://www.cyprusembassy.fi/main/index.php?p=Consular_Sectio...

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#376

Post by yitchelle »

adrianratnapala wrote: post #366
yitchelle wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ex-Aussie here. I wish that Australia would adopt a more de-centralise strategy on tech hubs. I live in Germany now and have seen multinational companies setup their European HQ is small cities or towns. This is equivalent to having Atlassian setting up their HQ in Bathurst.

I don't think it has much to do with strategy or tech hubs. The Australian population is just very centralised -- it makes sense given our geography and demographics. In Europe "far" away from any big town can mean as little as 50km. Especially in Germany, you are never very far from some mid-size city which once dominated a independent principality. Rhode & Schwarz, B/H/S and Siemens all have HQs within about 10 min…

You're absolutely right. Far away travel in Australia is measured in days, where as it is measured is hours in Germany. The extremely Australian population density does not help at all.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#377

Post by not_kurt_godel »

kzisme wrote: post #278
rubicon33 wrote: post #38

I used to live in SF. It was exciting, but also shitty. I felt connected and alive, which was great, but also drained of resources, which really sucked. Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. I had the living room. Yea. I lasted 3 years, until I met my wife, and by then I was ready to move. We did. Now, life in the suburbs, is slow. I feel somewhat disconnected and like I don't really belong to this co…

This comment resonates with me. After leaving university, and moving on to a full time position in a suburb I feel completely disconnected. I didn't attend a ~huge~ school, but the sense of community was there. The lack of this feeling has been hard to explain, but this comment explains it very well. I'm not sure if I will(or can) ever do something about this feeling either.

> in a suburb I feel completely disconnected

Suburbs are fundamentally alienating and isolating in my experience. The physical distance between houses limits the number of people you're likely to meet and interact with in your locale. The need to drive everywhere disconnects you from your surroundings and community, as opposed to walking and biking whose physical aspect creates a tangible connection with your surroundings. Disputes with neighbors over relatively minor issues get amplified by concerns over property values to the point of creating permanent rifts. Freedom of thought and nonconformity are generally viewed skeptically if not outright suspiciously. Strangers are distrusted by virtue of non-residents having no reason to be in the neighborhood, ever. Overall my experience is they foster a cloistered, narrow-minded, distrustful mentality that is intellectually stifling and culturally toxic.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#378

Post by Anderkent »

ryandrake wrote: post #338
Anderkent wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like different things. What a shock! > Same goes for nightclubs, museums, movie theaters, "culture". This is really why people want to live somewhere??? What do you do in the afternoons? Almost every home-hobby I can think of is improved by company of people with similar interests. Rather than do DYI in a garage, I'd rather go to a hackerspace. Rather than play the same N boardgames with the same X people, I'd…

> People like different things. What a shock! For sure, I get that. I just find it pretty amusing that restaurants, of all things, constantly get brought up in these "Why do engineers move to the city" stories. Anyway, aren't we all working 60-80 hour weeks? Even if I liked restaurants and night clubs, I'd have no opportunity between work and sleep to partake, so it would make no difference whether there were good on…

> Anyway, aren't we all working 60-80 hour weeks? Even if I liked restaurants and night clubs, I'd have no opportunity between work and sleep to partake, so it would make no difference whether there were good ones around!

And you don't think that's a problem? But no, we don't all work 60-80 hour weeks. Work shouldn't be your life, and 40-45 hours is already a lot of time.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#379

Post by branchless »

Anderkent wrote: post #170
branchless wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why: because of the financialization of housing. Why accept it? Westerners don't understand how their economies work to pass surplus value to the non-productive.

> Why accept it? Westerners don't understand how their economies work to pass surplus value to the non-productive Why do you think it's a question of understanding, rather than a moral obligation to help others?

The system decides. Charity after siphoning off labour is a poor second.

http://savingcommunities.org/docs/george.henry/helpunemploye...

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