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Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

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Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#361

Post by Chinjut »

BurningFrog wrote: post #326
Chinjut wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell, more than a divorce, if the beating is literal. No one should be beating anyone.

I'm glad we sorted out that problem.

The commenter several up in this thread mentioned the threat of a beating from their wife so casually, like it was no big thing, like of course their wife would beat them for talking to other women. I presume it was just colorful language on their part, but if they are laboring under the idea that this would actually be a reasonable situation (fucked-up gender norms perhaps playing a role here), it's important to stress that it is not. Wives should no more express displeasure with their husbands through violence or the implicit threat of such than vice versa. (Nor, as noted, should anyone behave this way toward anyone)

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#362

Post by ebfe »

chillacy wrote: post #348
NTDF9 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that picture very well. Thanks for bringing it up. I really think equality of opportunity should exist beyond social lines like gender, race, disabilities etc. But equality of outcome? Why? Why should everyone have equal outcome? What is the reward for hard work then? Why be a good person if being a bad one will bring the same outcome? When everyone starts with the same opportunities, the hardworker, sma…

I agree that equal outcome is undesirable. But if you truly had equal opportunity for something universally desired, let's say higher education, you would expect to see in your freshman class across all colleges a distribution matching the general population in all these factors, like gender/race/disabilities, and I would add wealth too. But when we look at these distributions we see some under represented, and some…

>you would expect to see in your freshman class across all colleges a distribution matching the general population in all these factors, like gender/race/disabilities

Why would you expect this? The mean IQ of black Americans is a standard deviation below that of Asians. Surely you would expect to see relatively fewer of them.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#363

Post by abz10 »

32wattle_park wrote: post #304

Hi, I got my CS degree from a university in Australia back in the early 90s. It was hard to find a job after I graduated, lots of companies prefer guys to work for them. So I had to start from a very bottom position, data entry. After a year, I managed to find a position as a junior programmer. I had the lowest salary in the team. I liked technical challenges, but hardly got any because all the interesting projects w…

I'm an Australian male who moved to the US. I don't recommend anyone, male or female, work in tech in Australia. The pay is crap and housing is ridiculously expensive. Think SF'ish rent for midwest pay.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#364

Post by generic_user »

Mz wrote: post #293
generic_user wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are thousands of Men that are 'forced out' of technology jobs every day due to not making the cut during there interviews or leaving for a long list of reasons. No one has shown that the general environment in technology focus businesses is more hostel to women then Men. It can be stressful and hostel to everyone equally. I believe that is the case. Woman have better options for careers in many professions with…

I appear to be the top ranked woman on HN. I have a Certificate in GIS. I have dealt with quite a lot of crap that I am confident is due to my gender. I am aware that men are not welcomed with open arms merely for being male. But women can do everything "right" and find it still isn't enough. It is a genuine and frustrating problem for me personally. It is a problem space I have worked on for some years. I am sorry y…

Men also have a lot of 'crap' that is because of there gender also.

Lost jobs and being looked over for promotions for the explicit reason that there was an artificial quota for people with a Female genitalia to fill certain positions. Regardless of how unskilled or uninterested they were in the work. I am sure many Men have had this brutal injustice perpetrated against them.

There is a level of aggressiveness and bulling allowed towards Men which would never be allowed towards Woman. It is simply seen as 'survival of the fittest' in most organisations and even encouraged by management in many cases. Serious health problems, depression and even death have resulted because of these type of environments. Where is the outrage for this injustice?

"women can do everything "right" and find it still isn't enough."

Yes, and so can Men. This is not gender specific this is just the brutal reality of working life. Most people have been crushed at one point or another in there career by what seems like an undeserved attack on them personally. If you can not separate that personal experience from the larger Industry and world in general you are putting yourself into permanent psychosis of fear and oppression. The world does not owe you anything even if you're the best, smartest, nicest person in the world. You have to work through hardships and move on in life.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#365

Post by fasfdkjlk »

Teever wrote: post #159
kaitai wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can't live one's whole life worried about this. When I (female) ask male colleagues etc for informational interviews, work coffee, other meetings, I face the same problem. All you can do is be clear in the first place and exit gracefully if misunderstanding persists. "Hey, I'm really interested in your experience teaching kids how to create GUIs using tkinter. Could I ask you about that over coffee?" If there's a…

The natural conclusion of this train of thought is to never ask someone out for coffee to begin with as the OP was suggesting.

Since my bad experience inviting a female colleague out to coffee, I've never really gotten too socially close to my female colleagues, and it has harmed neither my professional career nor my social life. I have female friends, I just don't make them at work.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#366

Post by fasfdkjlk »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #237
ben_jones wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does phrasing exist though to keep if professional? Honest question. My best attempt would probably be: "Hey would you like to go out for coffee professionally?"

I have a feeling that would be ruined by a few men who who had more than professional intentions. Besides, nearly this entire conversation is because of a few people. It only takes a single creepy guy in a group of 100 to ruin everybody's experience.

Yes, but this is the case in many spheres of life. For example, very few men attack women on the street. However, because I know that women are watching out for this, whenever I am going to be passing a woman on the street in an isolated neighborhood at night, I make sure to stay well away from her, don't look at her, and overall try to make sure that she doesn't think I'm one of those bad guys.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#367

Post by flukus »

morgtheborg wrote: post #322
generic_user wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are thousands of Men that are 'forced out' of technology jobs every day due to not making the cut during there interviews or leaving for a long list of reasons. No one has shown that the general environment in technology focus businesses is more hostel to women then Men. It can be stressful and hostel to everyone equally. I believe that is the case. Woman have better options for careers in many professions with…

> It can be stressful and hostel to everyone equally. I believe that is the case. Eh, none of the men seem particularly perturbed by the term bitch, slut, whore, etc until I point out it makes me uncomfortable. None of them seem particularly disturbed by the subpar maternity leave until, again, I bring it up. None of them seem particularly concerned that they are assumed to be technical, and I am assumed to be admini…

> Eh, none of the men seem particularly perturbed by the term bitch, slut, whore, etc until I point out it makes me uncomfortable.

There are plenty of pejoratives for men too, they are likely using those to refer to each other.

>None of them seem particularly disturbed by the subpar maternity leave until, again, I bring it up.

Did you ask about the paternity leave?

> I literally was turned down from a job I later learned routinely had business meetings at a strip club. I highly doubt any of the men were uncomfortable and I highly doubt you're confused as to why I would have been.

You don't think plenty of men would have been uncomfortable in the same situation? I have a hard enough time clarifying me thoughts fast enough in meetings, I really wouldn't want to do it with tits bouncing around and a raging boner. Side note, most men don't really like strip clubs, it's one of those things we are expected to pretend to love.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#368

Post by qntty »

neom wrote: post #88

The most mind boggling part of this whole thread is it appears that there are many people who don't know how to begin active communication with another human. What isn't being taught in schools?

I wish we could all get along like we could when we were young school kids. Kids fight but at least they know how to empathize with each other when they try.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#369

Post by jshevek »

gentleteblor wrote: post #242
exstudent2 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want people to take your opinions on gender issues seriously, it's probably best not to use sexist terms like "mansplaining". Edit (for some reason, locked from commenting further): > It describes a specific behavior almost entirely practiced by men Um no it doesn't. Possibly the word your looking for is condescending (that's usually what people mean when they say "mansplaining"). I don't see that here though.…

I think my usage of "mansplaining" is pretty ideal here. It describes a specific behavior almost entirely practiced by men and which is being practiced right here and now. The interesting part about "mansplaining" (as it were), is that it's usually slathered in "appeals to reason", logical fallacies, declarations of impartiality etc. etc. But it's easy to spot.

> usually slathered in "appeals to reason", logical fallacies, declarations of impartiality

If you think that other posters have engaged in logical fallacies, why not quote the text, name the fallacy, and explain how you think it applies?

Re: "appeals to reason", we absolutely should strive to be reasonable in our evaluation of claims and positions. I believe this is the main reason that various kinds of ideologues get strong pushback on HN.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#370

Post by netule »

hobs wrote: post #185
whamlastxmas wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of respect for the concepts discussed here, but as a side note "check with your HR team" is a pretty bad idea in most cases. As it's often said, HR is there to protect the company. Not to help employees. Approaching HR with the question "Is it ok to talk to women?" is going to make that HR employee make a note in your file that you're potentially causing a harassing environment and there's documentation…

Seconded, I have never worked at a company where talking to the HR team was a good idea for any reason. If you are thinking about it you should probably seek a lawyer because they are not your friend.

Agreed, HR exists to protect the company, nothing else.

Nothing related to gender, but I once had a coworker at a mid-sized company angrily threaten me in his cubicle: "if we weren't in the office, I would slit your throat." I immediately went to HR about it and literally the first thing they asked me after I told them was "can anyone corroborate your story?" I couldn't since nobody overheard us, so I was screwed. It was the only time in my life that I actually feared for my life from another human being -- especially since I tried to report him. I walked to my car with a friend that night, fearing he'd be waiting for me in the parking lot.

This coworker had received complaints for other issues from others in my department as well, but the company just didn't act. He remained there until he finally was fired for incompetence.

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